Pantograph up/down signs, etc

[SuperNoob]

I am wondering, how close drivers follow the pantograph down/up, traction motors off/on signs and associated speed limits?

Doesn't seem to be a penalty (yet?) for not.

The signs I've included are from Gazz's signs and signals, and are for representation only.

[Gazz292]

i react to the We8a and We9a signs, and shut off power as i go through a neutral section.... i'm getting good at spotting the signs up on the wires that are for trains running the opposite way on my line, so the sign is backwards for me, but it tells the EMU's they can put their panto back up if running on the left line... and gives me a little warning for the We8a sign that is for me. 

then i have just enough time to get the power wheels round to zero and the ammeter showing zero before the 2 sections of overhead wire are present ('m mostly an EU07 / EP08 driver) 

 

The pantograph lowering signs, i think i;ve spotted one maybe on another track, but havent seen any on my usual route (141XX timetables) 

 

I can hope this kind of thing will be activated in SimRail later, but as an optional thing, as some people don't even like having the SHP/Cuzwak on when driving. 

[SuperNoob]

4 hours ago, Gazz292 said:

then i have just enough time to get the power wheels round to zero and the ammeter showing zero before the 2 sections of overhead wire are present ('m mostly an EU07 / EP08 driver)

I have just started to try and time that myself. I have been exclusively driving the EU07 services, primarily working the 24/421xx routes.

4 hours ago, Gazz292 said:

The pantograph lowering signs, i think i;ve spotted one maybe on another track, but havent seen any on my usual route (141XX timetables)

I have only noticed them while working the 24/421xx services via Dąbrowa Górnicza Strzemieszyce, and then only, at that station.

4 hours ago, Gazz292 said:

I can hope this kind of thing will be activated in SimRail later, but as an optional thing, as some people don't even like having the SHP/Cuzwak on when driving. 

I hope so too, the tailoring of difficulty is certainly nice. I have been looking for some sort of foot pedal that I can key bind so I can reset the SHP/Cuzwak just to add the extra level.

Thanks for the input Gazz.

Edited March 3, 2023 by SuperNoob

[Loongeron]

One more question. Does anyone, as in life, start moving with two pantographs?

[sf_giants15]

vor 13 Stunden schrieb SuperNoob:

I am wondering, how close drivers follow the pantograph down/up, traction motors off/on signs and associated speed limits?

Doesn't seem to be a penalty (yet?) for not.

The signs I've included are from Gazz's signs and signals, and are for representation only.

Ive written a topic on the Multiplayer improvement section on the Forum about that exact topic.
You should get XP Points for shutting of power and get penalty for not doing so.
we'll see if they implement this one day

[0x8000ffff]

 

We1 indicator
Means to prepare to lower the pantographs before the next indicator and reduce speed to 60 km/h.
The We1 indicator is placed 500 m before the We2 indicator.

We2 indicators (We2a, We2b, We2c)
They mean that the pantographs must be lowered.
We2 indicators are set on the route and at the station 100 m before the beginning of the track section through which the pantographs must be driven.

 

[Angelo]

Just a quick advice: on the EU07, you can instantly cut off the power to the traction motors by pressing the red button on the right of the buttons & switches panel (2nd from the right). Personally, though, I never use it until I have at least reduced the power, e.g. by setting the shunt to zero if I was using it, so that the passengers never feel anything.

[DazT]

I see sign We8a says 'traction motors off', should this not also be 'and main switch open' and We9a ...... "and main switch closed"??

I know here in the UK we have APC magnets, two just on approach to and and two just beyond neutral sections which do exactly that, the first set of magnets automatically opens the VCB (Vacuum Circuit Breaker) disconnecting the train from the overhead supply, and the second set closes the VCB again.

If your train hasn't got any stock on that's also drawing current (ie, carriage lights on, air con, etc) then just knocking it into Notch 0 I guess would be sufficient, but if you've got something still drawing a load whilst not using any traction power then I'd of thought the main switch should also be pressed so you're not dragging voltage from a 3kV section into a dead section and causing an arc. In reality, the important one is not drawing current going from a dead section into a live section, unless you like flashes off the overheads! 😁

[DazT]

Also, interesting to see there's no advanced warning for the neutral sections in Poland like there is in the UK, usually placed (don't quote me!) around 1 mile 1/4 in rear (on approach to) the neutral section that it applies to give older locos in the Class 81 to 87 (although none are no longer in front line duty) range enough time to run down the tap changer to 0

[GoppelPL]

47 minut temu, DazT napisał(a):

should this not also be 'and main switch open' and We9a ...... "and main switch closed"

Nope, we don't switch off the MCB (so the converters, A/C, compressors and battery chargers as well) at every neutral section. You just need to set the motors to neutral in case the following section has way lower or greater voltage than the current one, as this could trigger the overcurrent protection.

11 godzin temu, Loongeron napisał(a):

Does anyone, as in life, start moving with two pantographs?

Only with very heavy loads, as the sudden current surge could damage the catenary if there was such a great current flowing through a single pantograph. Most of the trains in Poland would stand still with both pantographs up to allow the AC/heating power divide between the pantographs, but lower the forward one just before departing.

[Gazz292]

34 minutes ago, DazT said:

I see sign We8a says 'traction motors off', should this not also be 'and main switch open' and We9a ...... "and main switch closed"??

I originally had 'power off' then another phrase for the We8a sign, but some people said that was confusing... someone driving a diesel one day will shut the engines down at these signs etc 🙂 

I only have a max of 6 short words that can fit in most boxes to describe what the signs and signals mean and not need a magnifying glass to read, so it's just a basic description... you see a sign or signal you're not sure about when driving in SimRail, look on the sheet and know at least the basics of what it's telling you, without having to read the Polish railway signalling regulations.

I do have a bit more info for some things like passing an A-B-S on red etc, but that's in separate panels on the sheet.

But for the EU07, i know about the 'open line contactors' button, but figured that's a kind of 'emergency button' pressing it whilst the motors are pulling any decent amount of current will not do the contacts any good i imagine (but i'm always happy to be corrected if i've got something wrong here) 

[SuperNoob]

12 hours ago, Loongeron said:

One more question. Does anyone, as in life, start moving with two pantographs?

That was going to be my next question. I was watching some YT videos of EU07s starting off and was wondering why they did that. I see its been answered in the next replies.

[SuperNoob]

1 hour ago, GoppelPL said:

Only with very heavy loads, as the sudden current surge could damage the catenary if there was such a great current flowing through a single pantograph. Most of the trains in Poland would stand still with both pantographs up to allow the AC/heating power divide between the pantographs, but lower the forward one just before departing.

Thank you for answering that!

 

1 hour ago, GoppelPL said:

Nope, we don't switch off the MCB (so the converters, A/C, compressors and battery chargers as well) at every neutral section. You just need to set the motors to neutral in case the following section has way lower or greater voltage than the current one, as this could trigger the overcurrent protection.

So in the case of the EU07/EP08, you would reduce throttle/shunt to 0 and then put it in neutral?

[Gazz292]

From what i've learnt, when the overhead wires were single, a heavy freight train starting up, or when a long passenger train with a high heating load from the carriages was stood in a station for a while, a single pantograph could create a hotspot where it's pulling a lot of current, and potentially weld the pantograph to the wires, which will cause damage when the train moves off. 

Nowadays most over head wires are double, especially in stations, so this isn't as much a problem as it used to be (gotta remember it's 'only' 3Kv DC we're talking about here, and not 15 - 25 Kv AC as used in some other countries, so the current draw is much higher on the lower voltage systems) 

But most drivers were taught to raise both pantographs when stopped, and still do so today even if they may not officially have to (it could still be in the rules to do this with a heavy freight, even if on a section with double overhead wires?) 

 

As for when driving the EU07/EP08,  just turn the power wheel to zero, no need to move the reversing lever / switch to neutral as there's no power going to the motors when the power wheel is at zero/off. 

I've seen in i think the pendolino that it has a 'neutral section' button, but that's a computer controlled train, the EU07 is pretty much all manual... which is why i love it so much. 

[DazT]

1 hour ago, GoppelPL said:

Nope, we don't switch off the MCB (so the converters, A/C, compressors and battery chargers as well) at every neutral section. You just need to set the motors to neutral in case the following section has way lower or greater voltage than the current one, as this could trigger the overcurrent protection.

That's a shame, we get a very satisfying clunk/thud over here running through neutral sections!

 

But duly noted, run/notch down to 0

Edited March 3, 2023 by DazT

[0x8000ffff]

4 godziny temu, DazT napisał(a):

Also, interesting to see there's no advanced warning for the neutral sections in Poland like there is in the UK [...]

For this reason, Polish locomotive drivers must be best trained to be able to work in such difficult conditions 😆

 

Gentlemen, the We8 indicator simply says that the vehicle should not draw electricity from the catenary, so the adjuster to the zero position and an no more trouble ;)

Edited March 3, 2023 by 0x8000ffff