When does the 40kph limit on a Signal end? (for example green/yellow signal)

[sf_giants15]

Ive noticed that sometimes on a 40 kph Signal the temporary speed limit ends when the tail of the train has run over the track switch and sometimes the speedlimit ends at the next Signal

How do I know when to accelerate without the HUD

[Gazz292]

I'd guess that if the speed restriction was due to the train changing tracks, i.e. going over points / switches / junctions, then the limit must end when the whole train is clear of the points. 

but when it's a speed restriction on a straight line, then it ends when the nose of the train passes the higher speed signal?   as there's no danger of speeding up and having the back end of the train going through a set of points / switch too fast then. 

 

but i could be wrong, Polish signalling can be both simple and complicated at times. 

[Henry F]

From what I can tell, it ends when you drives by other speed limiting device (speed limit sign or clear signal) that has a higher speed limit. Signal speed limit is the only thing that ends at the head end of the train, and only most of the time. When you drive by speed limits, the one that is the lowest across the entire consist of the train applies, and that is if your vmax is higher than the speed limit.

[uetam]

Currently it works like this - when you leave the station and enter the mainline, the restriction disappears after the last car passes the last switch.
If you are inside the station, the restriction will always remain until you pass the next signal.

[Kalkin]

As German I can recommend you to read about "Anschließender Weichenbereich" DS301. Think about, that you allways have to be pass the signals or switches that allows higher speedlimits with the whole train before you can raise your speed.

[Gazz292]

I was kinda thinking about an Sz signal, where the 40/20km/h limit ends when you pass the next working signal. 

[Schyrsivochter]

On 2/10/2023 at 12:16 AM, Kalkin said:

As German I can recommend you to read about "Anschließender Weichenbereich" DS301. Think about, that you allways have to be pass the signals or switches that allows higher speedlimits with the whole train before you can raise your speed.

Assuming that SimRail’s ‘allowed speed’ mechanic is accurate, though, it’s different in Poland. Most importantly, it seems that a speed restriction on a station’s entry or intermediate signal ends when the head of the train has passed the next signal, not when the entire train has passed as in Germany. Anyone know Polish railway rules and can confirm this?

I’d also like to know what the deal is with exiting stations by Sz. Sometimes the game tells me to drive 40 km/h until I’ve cleared the points zone (as with German Zs 1/Zs 7), but sometimes I have to drive 20 km/h till I’ve passed the next signal – driving on sight perhaps? So how do I know what a particular Sz means?

[Gazz292]

i don't know the Polish signals that well, but i know the Sz things is kinda complicated, 

It's 40 km/h within 'station limits'  i.e. an area with semi automatic signals (the ones with red and white striped poles), as they are operated by a person who can see if the line is clear.

Now i think it's ... as soon as you pass the last semi automatic signal and enter an automatic block signal area (white poles, 2 or 3 aspect signal heads) it's 20 km/h, 
an Automatic Block Signal can not show Sz aspect, so there's that rule that if you are stopped at a ABS (usually you wait about 8 seconds) then you can pass it at 20 km/h, but being prepared to stop immediately if you find another train or an obstruction ahead / around the corner. 

As soon as your trains front passes a ABS or semi automatic signal showing a normal aspect (other than stop) you can speed up to either line speed or the speed the signal is telling you.

 

 

The bit i'm not sure about it when you exit a semi automatic signal area under Sz signals, is it the last semi automatic signal, or an automatic block signal that is this 'boundary' marker,  i think it's the former, as this always catches us out, we pass a red and white striped pole signal at 40 km/h, but the limit changes to 20 km/h.... as the next signal is a ABS one.

 

 

[sf_giants15]

Am 9.2.2023 um 23:15 schrieb uetam:

Currently it works like this - when you leave the station and enter the mainline, the restriction disappears after the last car passes the last switch.
If you are inside the station, the restriction will always remain until you pass the next signal.

And how do I know if I'm inside a station or if its the last signal of a station. I sometimes got penalty for speeding because i thought it was the last Signal but I was still inside the Station. I guess its route knowledge or timetable sheet irl (Asig) 

[Gazz292]

That's the bit i haven't figured out yet i'm afraid,  perhaps the last semi automatic signals ID plate gives this info?  but they are very hard to read when you are moving.

The Polish drivers schedules / timetables don't have the Esig, Asig, Bksig stuff on them like German ones do unfortunately.

I'm playing around with Polish drivers schedules, making a PDF version sized to fit on a 6 inch screen of a kindle type e-ink reader, but i can't see from the data train drivers have to them on the paper timetables where the 'station limits' end.

They show speed limit locations, the actual station / post location, your times, train data etc, and then some codes about what each 'station' has,  like the radio channels in use, if it's got SHP on the signals and so on (that's the R1, H, SS) stuff on the bottom right of each station entry, 

But none of this tells me where the station limits end and you go onto automatic block signals (if i'm reading the timetable wrong, please tell me) 

[qbahn]

W dniu 20.02.2023 o 18:19, Gazz292 napisał(a):

But none of this tells me where the station limits end

You need to pay attention to the line mileage markers. In the second column from the left is given the mileage up to which the speed limit applies. Of course, in metric units. Unfortunately, there are also temporary limits. They may not be listed in the table. They are orange. You need to look at the signs - temporaty limit ahead.

The pillars of automatic block signals are white. Semi-automatic ones have pillars with white and red stripes. Exit signals are always semi-automatic, if any.
 

Edited March 1, 2023 by qbann

[sf_giants15]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb qbann:

You need to pay attention to the line mileage markers. In the second column from the left is given the mileage up to which the speed limit applies. 

 

But the milagemarkers and speed restriction in the schedule give me only information about the route speed restriction. If you have a speed restriction from a semi auto signal you still dont know if its the exit signal or if its a signal within a station 

For example: you go from DG Zabkowice to DG Huta Katowice you get a 100kph restriction from a semi auto Signal. First time i went there i thought i could speed up after going over the last track switch. I thought this signal was the exit signal but it wasnt so i had to hold the 100kph since there was another semi auto signal  which comes after the yard. 

So the Schedule with its milage markers still doesnt tell me if i am within station limits or not

[0x8000ffff]

I will try to summarize everything that has been written above 😉

W dniu 9.02.2023 o 18:08, sf_giants15 napisał(a):

How do I know when to accelerate without the HUD

In modern locomotives there are special buttons that start measuring the distance traveled, counting it from the moment the button is pressed. When the locomotive travels a distance equal to the length of our train, a sound signal sounds and information on the display. You simply press this button when the locomotive passes the W9 indicator of the end of the speed limit section. In SimRail it is not implemented in these locomotives. So, knowing the total length of the train, it remains to calculate the kilometer on the route (looking at the hectometre bars, of course, from the locomotive), in which the last car will pass the final W9.

 

W dniu 9.02.2023 o 23:15, uetam napisał(a):

Currently it works like this - when you leave the station and enter the mainline, the restriction disappears after the last car passes the last switch.
If you are inside the station, the restriction will always remain until you pass the next signal.

This is probably the simplest and best explanation of this issue.

 

W dniu 11.02.2023 o 16:17, Schyrsivochter napisał(a):

I’d also like to know what the deal is with exiting stations by Sz. Sometimes the game tells me to drive 40 km/h until I’ve cleared the points zone (as with German Zs 1/Zs 7), but sometimes I have to drive 20 km/h till I’ve passed the next signal – driving on sight perhaps? So how do I know what a particular Sz means?

In the example timetable posted by @Gazz292, you can see, among others, the designations "PP" and "SS". At the station "Góra Włodawska" we have SS, which means going on a two-track route with Automatic Line Lock (Polish: SBL) - white semaphore poles. Therefore, the speed limit is 20 km/h on "Sz", valid until the next SBL signal. The "Zawiercie" station has the entry "PP", which means leaving the station on a double-track route with a semi-automatic blockade line (Polish: PBL). So on "Sz" we go 40 km/h.

On the route marked "SS" (SBL), automatic semaphores are deployed until the next station. Thus, the exit signal from the station to the SBL route is also the first signal on the route.
On the route marked "PP" (PBL), next semaphore that we will meet on PBL route will be the entry signal from the route to the next station.

Edited March 1, 2023 by 0x8000ffff

[Gazz292]

i drive the EU07 almost exclusively,  so no train length measuring 'roadrunner' device in that, 

Instead i either guess (with the help of the hectometer boards) that i've traveled the length of my train past the signal (it's length is given in the timetables right hand side panel... 'dł.Poc', so for the train in the timetable above thats 187 meters)

Or i can 'cheat' and press '6' which shows me the last carriage camera, which is looking backwards, so when i see the signal / speed limit board pass the view of that camera, i am past it and can accelerate.

[Angelo]

You can know that you're leaving a station when you see the limit of shunting signal - the white top-half circle with a black border (W5 signal).

[0x8000ffff]

16 godzin temu, Angelo napisał(a):

You can know that you're leaving a station when you see the limit of shunting signal - the white top-half circle with a black border (W5 signal).

One small note, if I may. The W5  indicator    is not present at all stations. Only on those on which wagons are shunted. This is by no means an indicator of the end of the station.

Edited March 2, 2023 by 0x8000ffff

[Angelo]

Didn't know that! Anyways, I expect that such stations will be so small and simple that the driver won't have any doubt he's out of the station.

[sf_giants15]

vor 19 Stunden schrieb Angelo:

You can know that you're leaving a station when you see the limit of shunting signal - the white top-half circle with a black border (W5 signal).

not a bad idea