Look where trains should go.

[Záhorácká]

AI is dumb thats why traffic is stuck!

Nope, its you! AI is good now.

When people sending trains without looking where the train is going..

For example Sosnowiec.. every train starting with 42 is going to poludniowy. But if you send him next stations eventually he will get stuck in Zabkowice. So be aware where trains are going. Use your second monitor!

[PapaCharlie]

It is not worth the time saying it again and again. 

Many people think because they have many tracks they can send trains on any of them anf often without coordinating with AI. I drove on the "drivers only" servers lately and had zero issues with stuck trains or flooded station. 

Switching back to Servers with people as dispatchers and in a very short period of time folks start to cause chaos by doing useless stuff. Most dumb thing I have heard was " Hey you wanna do a race? I have 4 tracks, I'll send you all at the same time to Katowice" And guess what it was not repairable by anybody. 

I get the idea to also test what people are doing during a playtest but in many cases people are unable to read on which track the train has to go. 

Only thing we can do is to hope they come up with a more restrictive system. I mean reas dispatchers have to learn a lot and during a long period of time to operate that stuff and here, almost all real world functionality is simulated but operated by people and kids completely unwilling to read even the short tutorial of what to do and how. This combination cant work out at all. 

Besides that, many users have found bugs in the signalling operations stuff that is worth noting and beeing fixed because there are sometimes also bugs. Anyway, if you just follow the timetable and the tracks on which the trains have to go I never found any issues. The moment people start "playing" around is when things brake from time to time. 

[SurvivorSean]

I tend to agree because I was on EN02 server last night and nobody rejoined after rebot (because everyone was on EN04) running everything left hand running.  I'm not sure why they started but it worked because there was communication between the dispatchers apparently and they used signs etc.  That is fine for testing purposes.

But when I first came into Lazy LC last night there were the odd triangle indicators pointing against me.  I'm stil not sure what they are but I managed to get them off. 

That being said there are some issues with AI with asking for tracks then canceling.  I got bored of Lazy (I think it's been dumbed down because of the issues or it's not as tough as it seems) I noticed a pile up was starting when running SG.  So I went down to that station as it was available to the left.  Everything appearted to be fine but the AI was going nuts.  The trains were on the right tracks waiting but AI would not clear them.

Hopefully there is a server log so the developers can monitor what is happening.  Everything seems to work just fine (despite the odd calling and canceling issue that is known in some places).  But when you are on a freshly booted server or one that is not as busy services haven't been screwed up.

Unfortunately the only way to learn is make mistakes.  I try to be extra careful at SG as it's the most challenging but even it gets repetitive. 

Thanks

Sean

[BigVern]

Is part of the problem they have made the signalling control way too complex for many casual users?

I worked on the real railway for over 40 years, not as a signaller, though in the Control I was expected to have a working knowledge of the principles of the system. However I couldn't have just walked into a signalbox - manual with semaphores, NX ("domino") or even modern computer screen ARS and started to operate the controls and move trains. I believe it is something like a 3 month (maybe longer) training course for UK signallers and that's before they learn specific signalboxes with the relevant local instructions. Yet SimRail is dropping people into the signaller role with the scantest of knowledge in some cases.

Would something like the PC Rail, SimSig or even SIAM system where routing etc. is greatly simplified not have been a better approach? There is obviously a disruptive element at work presently but many of the problems may well be due to well intentioned people having a go and getting overwhelmed or stuck. Maybe there needs to be some on screen prompts or help if an action is required but the signaller hasn't got around to it.

[Kaito Kid]

 

7 minutes ago, BigVern said:

Is part of the problem they have made the signalling control way too complex for many casual users?

I worked on the real railway for over 40 years, not as a signaller, though in the Control I was expected to have a working knowledge of the principles of the system. However I couldn't have just walked into a signalbox - manual with semaphores, NX ("domino") or even modern computer screen ARS and started to operate the controls and move trains. I believe it is something like a 3 month (maybe longer) training course for UK signallers and that's before they learn specific signalboxes with the relevant local instructions. Yet SimRail is dropping people into the signaller role with the scantest of knowledge in some cases.

Would something like the PC Rail, SimSig or even SIAM system where routing etc. is greatly simplified not have been a better approach? There is obviously a disruptive element at work presently but many of the problems may well be due to well intentioned people having a go and getting overwhelmed or stuck. Maybe there needs to be some on screen prompts or help if an action is required but the signaller hasn't got around to it.

 

I've never ever touched an interlocking in my life and through investigation/trial 'n error, I've dispatched a lot of trains with no problems at all. It was really confusing at the very beginning as every country has their own rules and lets not talk about the language barrier. 😅 I wouldn't simplify controls, I don't see other serious simulators doing that so yeah...

The only "complaint" that I have is the lack of documentation, be it simplified or not but then again, this is a playtest so it's also good to know if people manage to play the rol with/without nothing at all. 😂

 

[Bluefox]

I'm sure they've already got something like this planned but the solution is pretty simple:

In single player you accumulate dispatcher xp for performing the role of dispatcher correctly, as you get more points increasingly complicated dispatcher positions on the multiplayer servers are unlocked. Simple.

I think most of the problems are people at SG not realising they are controlling a junction and that they actually need to read where the trains are supposed to go and people fiddling with the running direction of lines such that traffic is queueing up at certain key locations.

Don't dumb the signalling down, keep it realistic, there are enough of us that are capable of doing it properly, just lock it behind a decent level of experience required.

 

[Gazz292]

i think the playtests are pretty realistic... you can guarantee that when the sim is fully released, people are just going to load it up and start spamming all the buttons,
So how it's happening now is showing how people can break the system, intentionally or not, so safeguards can be put in place to try and recover from that kind of thing.

 

Few people read manuals nowadays, and a lot of people skip the tutorials, or don't take in what they are being taught in the tutorial.... look at tsw, they made it so that every new DLC you got, first time you started it you had to run the tutorial runs for each of the train types (even tho you already have 6 copies of the dosto and know it off by heart)

People moaned that they didn't like that, ok half of it was how to put up a missing timetable, poster or fix a broken monitor by walking over to it and 'bing' that was it, the poster magically appeared or the monitor was working' 
of course all that crap was to show you how to earn medals and points, something they put ahead of the actual gameplay,

 

 

[Kaito Kid]

https://semaforek.kolej.org.pl/wiki/index.php/Katowice_Zawodzie
https://www.simrail.fr/

I've been using these sites, 1st to know what I have and the layout of the station where I'm "working" in and then the 2nd one to locate myself geographically. The main problem as I said in my firsts posts is mainly the lack of knowledge of the line, geographical location and where/what are my side stations, at first I got confused as some villages have 2 stations but when I searched for the line info and visited those places using a map application and it all became clear... More or less.  

Then it came to signalling, but some of the signal aspects we already had in Spain and it wasn't really that difficult, also in Spain we have electric-manual interlockings so the only problem was the language.

Edited December 19, 2022 by Kaito Kid

[SurvivorSean]

Dumbing down the signal boxes is not a solution and will make this sim very boring.  I agree that documentation needs to be better.  I also like the idea of XP for dispatching properly.  I think there are some measures in place.

Right now it is not the big boards that are the most complicated or challenging for me it's the ones such as SG where instead of the majority going straight through you have to pay attention more to the routing.  Though I'm looking for a bigger challenge.

Believe it or not when the players are delayed because of issues (not stopped in traffic jams the AI can't solve out of) it gets more challenging when the schedule is off.  I had fun yesterday getting a box moving with trains as much as an hour delayed.  However I noticed that despite my hard work the AI box beside me couldn't handle the extra work load.  And yes I did route them correctly because it was left of SG and those trains ALL head left.  It's the ones that come right towards SG where you have to be careful of and everything at Bezin (I think that is right of SG if I recall) was working fine.  

Sorry I have a hard time remembering some of the boxes probably due to my meds and the language.  It's harder to remember words you don't know vs words you do know even in city names etc.  I try to use the initials as much as possible like the signal chart works.

Thanks

Sean

[Skully]

2 hours ago, Kaito Kid said:

https://semaforek.kolej.org.pl/wiki/index.php/Katowice_Zawodzie
https://www.simrail.fr/

Great finds. I was already wondering why I would get points for correct radio settings at Zawiercie and contemplating writing a table but it is all there: https://semaforek.kolej.org.pl/wiki/index.php?title=Zawiercie

What a master find and once all those signal boxes are playable and we can do shunting... 🤪

[Kaito Kid]

11 minutes ago, Skully said:

correct radio settings at Zawiercie and contemplating writing a table but it is all there: https://semaforek.kolej.org.pl/wiki/index.php?title=Zawiercie

I didn't realise that info was there too! 😂 Well, I usually dispatch more rather than drive. 😅

[Bescot]

And remember a few golden rules for beginners:

 

- Don't signal to the blue Tm signals for a normal train. The AI will stop. Tm's are for shunting only (i.e) maneuvers/reversing).

- Don't  set a route to a signal without an arrow unless you have no choice (due to a problem). Signals that look like this | do not have an exit, other than a Sz (flashing white sub signal).

- When setting a route using Sz (sub) signals: Before clearing the signal you must set the route using the switch +/- buttons and LOCK them, or you'll derail the train.

- When dealing with a reversing line lock:

The RECEIVING signaller does the work to release and reverse the line lock. The sending signaller needs to telephone to ask "is the line clear for ****?" The receiving signaller neutralizes the line direction (ZWBL), reverses (WBL), and replies with "Yes the line is clear for ****". Then they press Ko once the train arrives. The lock is then ready for another movement.

 

- Check and double check the routing before you click confirm. One second of thought might save you 10 minutes of trying to fix a simple error.

 

 

[jleymann]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Bescot:

set the route using the switch +/- buttons and LOCK them, or you'll derail the train

Are you sure it will derail? 😂

[SurvivorSean]

Good points up above.  Boy that photo reminds me of some Run8 trains splitting a switch.  If it's like Run8 it will eventually rejoin itself.

Thanks

Sean

[BigVern]

Think I had one or two on Derail Valley looking like that too!

[Fightdrug]

yeah i know what you mean have it now sometimes that Psary send speedtrains to my direction that normaly need in the other direction some dont do that on purpose i have ask the last time why train (four numbers) is here he say he read it wrong and say sorry 🙂 would be nice when you can sign the AI that they need to change the direction and need to drive back because then i would as gora just let him drive on the side track and let him change the cockpit and let him drive back

[SurvivorSean]

Yeah that's a good idea.  I know they are looking into a way of making sure the dispatcher lines up the right route or something.  But when things do get screwed up to be able to back up I don't think AI are capable at this point.

Thanks

Sean

[Kaito Kid]

55 minutes ago, jleymann said:

Are you sure it will derail? 😂

Dejá vù intensifies

[Averrnor]

I found today completely empty server for an hour or so. Used this to try myself in Sosnowiec. Got confused until founding that there are 2 timetables in drop list. Was playing with bots and all was going smoothly, hopefully I am ready get involved with the players 🙂 And actually, it showed me how single player sessions are required with any of the advanced signal boxes, just to get familiar with them...

[BigVern]

Anyhow having a quick go at Lazy on a quiet server. So far so good, learned that for trains towards Lazy LB you need to hit train departure button to clear down the route for the next train.

You.ve also got a lot of traffic from Lazy LB on that Line 3 where you need to confirm acceptance and give train out of section.

Edited December 19, 2022 by BigVern