cold and dark startup in multiplayer

[kyjos_CZ]

it would be good the possibility to spawn into the cold and dark set on the parking lane and then leave according to the timetable in muliplayer. at least a few cargo and passenger sets

[jayzhead]

That is definitely something that would be very fun to do in a MP service. Unfortunately, I don't see how it is viable for passenger runs as there are currently no passenger services in the game that have an actual start station - all the services come in off map already mid service, on the Warszawa end they come from W Grochow, and on the Katowice end they come from a variety of locations off map, like Bohumin, Gliwice, etc... Maybe when the Krakow extension will (finally) be released it could happen, as Krakow Glowny is the terminus station for the associated services. But the freight services that originate from the Katowice Staszic loop can definitely have a cold start added to them, especially now that many of them are run with the ET22 which is the only loco currently that supports a full cold start procedure.

[the810]

On 4/30/2024 at 2:48 PM, kyjos_CZ said:

it would be good the possibility to spawn into the cold and dark set on the parking lane and then leave according to the timetable in muliplayer. at least a few cargo and passenger sets

I don't love the idea of trains spawning out of nowhere in the "playable" area as that would look weird when you drive nearby. However, there are alternative solutions, i.e. the train could come as an AI train from somewhere beyond the map edge, then "turn off" automatically and player would then take it over in that state.

 

On 5/14/2024 at 11:47 AM, jayzhead said:

That is definitely something that would be very fun to do in a MP service. Unfortunately, I don't see how it is viable for passenger runs as there are currently no passenger services in the game that have an actual start station - all the services come in off map already mid service, on the Warszawa end they come from W Grochow, and on the Katowice end they come from a variety of locations off map, like Bohumin, Gliwice, etc... Maybe when the Krakow extension will (finally) be released it could happen, as Krakow Glowny is the terminus station for the associated services. But the freight services that originate from the Katowice Staszic loop can definitely have a cold start added to them, especially now that many of them are run with the ET22 which is the only loco currently that supports a full cold start procedure.

I don't think Krakow will be the gamechanger (in reality many trains terminate in Katowice, but devs intentionally make them all pass through). Shunting will be though. Once shunting is implemented in MP, I imagine we'll have some trains originating / terminating within the playable area and then continuing on another train after some wait. 

[Angelo]

On 5/21/2024 at 1:52 PM, the810 said:

(...) the train could come as an AI train from somewhere beyond the map edge, then "turn off" automatically and player would then take it over in that state.

It would be better if some trains were parked, and became available to players to turn them on some time before they need to start shunting to prepare a train.

Could you imagine dispatching in Katowice with a EU07 parked in front of you, and suddenly you see it raise the pantograph and you have to look up where its cars are stored and which train will use this stock?

[Królik Uszasty]

I like the idea from the first post but it's not a new one - it returns from the very beginning. The answer is "not yet", there are still some issues to resolve about shunting in multiplayer and the feature of "cold and dark startup" is the icing on the cake. It seems to be doable at some point, but we need a proper timetable with shunting from and to sidings.

For more informations you can read my post (and the whole topic) - it is in Polish and I do not have time to translate everything to English, but maybe internet translators can give you basic info:

 

[GoppelPL]

 

Here! 🙂

 

TL:DR

It's an interesting idea, but there are a lot of challenges to satisfy the users.

Full version

Regarding the "on-demand" timetable, I'm not the person to decide, or not even in the corresponding part of the team, so I'll just share my theories on how it can be done 😉 The system can be created in various ways, and we need to think about what do we want to acheive.

For example - to simply add a possibility for the users to define their desired route, calculate the timetable somehow, spawn the train in the desired place and here we go. But as a freight train will just go when possible, with the dispatchers squeezing them between other services, the passenger ones (as in reality, ie. special event trains) tend to have riddiculous running times and many crazy "pt" technical stops, not to interfere with the regular trains.

The traffic situation isn't really attractive with the current timetable. There are maybe 4 available slots per hour, maybe a little bit more could be organized with rescheduling. In Katowice area it's nearly the same, but there are cargo trains there as well. The MHE, MPE trains at the CMK (line 4) route are squeezed in tightly, to fit between the Pendolinos, being overtaken by them only once on the way. Furthermore, remember that there are no "disturbing" placeholder trains on the map (more commuter trains like the 43xxx Mysłowice services, near the big junctions). If they were there, even choosing the ED250 would mean schedule-included following behind slower trains and waiting for the green light at every station. Sounds fun? I doubt that.

"Why even bother with a fixed timetable?" some may ask. Well, for the human dispatchers to have fun and challenging, unpredictable traffic! If there only were the "on demand" trains, some posts might not have any traffic, and thus a dispatcher, and the whole multiplayer fun is about interacting between the drivers and dispatchers, am I right?

The timetable creation needs much consideration, regarding automation and its results. In real life, the timetable for an "ad-hoc" train is ordered 8 or 24 hours before planned departure - thus creating a margin, allowing to find a reasonable departure/arrival time, allowing acheiving a greater scheduled top speed, or sorting the trains in order to acheive the best line capacity possible. When ordering a timetable for ASAP, the problem is that the best time for departure was a minute ago, and it's obviously impossible to acheive. Then we come to the train charecteristics, because if someone is stubborn enough and finaly gets their EU07 with 2000t timetable from Zawiercie to Grodzisk Mazowiecki, they will clog the line for the next couple hours, using up the whole line capacity with one train, and would stop at every station on the way to let the Pendolinos and even MPEs and MHEs pass.

In general the idea is interesting and naturally is a perfect additional tool - especially with the competition only having on demand timetables. However, I'd rather expect some more timetable options (mainly the freight ones, since there are some interesting opportunities to be taken advantage of), maybe some timetable variants. The "Pendostar Galactica: Katowice Muchowiec Staszic Adventure" fanbase will still have to wait for now.

In the shunting area - I'd limit the side tracks capacity and the number of consists/vehicles to be used with the server stars. For example - it's not difficult to clog the Koleje Śląskie yard in Katowice with their EN76s (they all look the same, so you could choose a random one), but the long distance train yard there has very limited capacity, and only a handful of player trains could be ran from there. Even if the shunting was working in its full image and the consists would circulate between the trains, I still could see how sad would one be to spawn a heavy freight loco, only to have empty coal carriages in a five-pack to choose from, because that's what the players were hauling in there for the whole day, exchanging them for the full ones.

 

[the810]

I really dislike the whole idea of "custom trains" on multiplayer maps. It's supposed to be a simulator and hence the overal timetable and composition of trains should make sense rather than having people add all kinds of nonsensical trains to it.

While ad hoc trains would be a nice and realistic touch, they shouldn't be generated by user prompts but rather by the system (e.g. system would randomly select a few trains from a large pool of pre-determined routings and timings). I have the same opinion about various traffic restrictions - it's cool to have a closed track, or even a line every now and then, but it shouldn't be decided by the players, but rather by the game itself.

Custom trains should only exist in singleplayer or perhaps at a dedicated server. Normal servers should remain timetabled.