Unrealistic track switches

[GreatLeviathan]

Hello, been playing the game for a bit now and the only issue i found is that the train acts weird when driving over a track switch. 
It acts as if it is driving over a speed bump, moving up and down when going over the switch. Not sure if this is a bug or not but it is highly unrealistic. 
Another issue is the signal sounds from railroad crossings, when in a cab of a train you will barely hear them if even hear them at all. 
And if you do hear them it would be for a split second. 
Keep up the good work so far 🙂 

[Gazz292]

is this based on you having cab rides or being a Polish train driver? 

the cab sway is very very tame compared to how it is in real life driving a 100 ton loco with metal wheel on metal tracks, so going over the frog of the points will give you a lurch when you are taking the diverting route, 

As for the level crossings, they are realistic to how they are in Poland, where some of them sound until the train has passed the crossing, unlike other countries where they sound only whilst the barriers are closing,

[GreatLeviathan]

Based on experience in cab rides yes, not freight tho. With those i can only base it off videos. 
Passenger trains do not bump or jump up and down over switches, maybe in Poland but if so they need to fix their rails lol. 
Belgium, Germany, Netherlands, France, USA, UK and so on switches are just as smooth to drive over as a normal straight rail, you will just hear the noise from the gaps but the train itself doesn't move up and down. The sway is normal ish tho in a passenger train also barely noticeable over here at least. 
Never been in Poland but i'm guessing their trains aren't all old etc. The one in the sim is a very modern one so wouldn't move up and down etc on a switch either. Just goes bang bang for the wheels. 

[Schyrsivochter]

Cab rides in a multiple unit train or in an actual locomotive? Multiple unit trains have the cab on the same bogies as the passenger compartment, with air suspension and all. Locomotives don’t have that.

Though I also think the lurching you see in SimRail when driving over point frogs or rail joints are a tad excessive sometimes.

[Gazz292]

i only drive the EU/EP07 EP08 loco's in the sim,  and the lurching on points is exactly what i'd expect, as the loco is very heavy and has basic coil spring suspension. 

Not sure if the multiple units lurch like the loco's do,  they shouldn't ... as mentioned above by Schyrsivochter, they have air suspension and share the same ride comfort as the passenger carriages behind a (modern) loco hauled train, 

but i think the movement in the loco's is way to tame, all the in cab videos i've seen on the EU07 and similar loco's, the driver is bouncing around all over the place, 
one of the Polish loco's is nicknamed the bull, a reference to how badly it rides at speed, it's like riding on a bull / bucking broncho,  and there's one loco that when they tried to run it at 140 km/h shook and jolted so much that the drivers couldn't focus their eyes on the signals and signs!

:

The other route in SimRail (can't recall it's name, not the CMK)  that's through an area with lots of mines, so subsidence is present, causing bad track and hence the slow speeds on that part of the line,  it's also fishplate joined track rather than continuously welded track, and the bumps over the track joins are 'alarming'  but true to life (SimRail has people on the team that drive Polish trains for a living, so you'd expect they have got the physics correct, as they have so much detail in how the loco's work)

[GreatLeviathan]

1 hour ago, Schyrsivochter said:

Cab rides in a multiple unit train or in an actual locomotive? Multiple unit trains have the cab on the same bogies as the passenger compartment, with air suspension and all. Locomotives don’t have that.

Though I also think the lurching you see in SimRail when driving over point frogs or rail joints are a tad excessive sometimes.

Yeah it is deffo excessive, but i also don't know the Polish trains. But seeing they are modern ones it deffo doesn't bounce like that not even the traxx. You can in theory see it in train stations when freight trains pass over junctions, they are still even tho the weight etc. But could be a difference in rails between Poland and for example Germany and Belgium. The rails over here are extremely smooth and well made. The swaying is normal ish maybe at times a bit over the top as well haha. 

 

23 minutes ago, Gazz292 said:

i only drive the EU/EP07 EP08 loco's in the sim,  and the lurching on points is exactly what i'd expect, as the loco is very heavy and has basic coil spring suspension. 

Not sure if the multiple units lurch like the loco's do,  they shouldn't ... as mentioned above by Schyrsivochter, they have air suspension and share the same ride comfort as the passenger carriages behind a (modern) loco hauled train, 

but i think the movement in the loco's is way to tame, all the in cab videos i've seen on the EU07 and similar loco's, the driver is bouncing around all over the place, 
one of the Polish loco's is nicknamed the bull, a reference to how badly it rides at speed, it's like riding on a bull / bucking broncho,  and there's one loco that when they tried to run it at 140 km/h shook and jolted so much that the drivers couldn't focus their eyes on the signals and signs!

:

The other route in SimRail (can't recall it's name, not the CMK)  that's through an area with lots of mines, so subsidence is present, causing bad track and hence the slow speeds on that part of the line,  it's also fishplate joined track rather than continuously welded track, and the bumps over the track joins are 'alarming'  but true to life (SimRail has people on the team that drive Polish trains for a living, so you'd expect they have got the physics correct, as they have so much detail in how the loco's work)

Yeah i can imagine loco's doing it on maybe bad rail works. Over here the traxx for example will barely budge when going over junctions. But we do have really well done rails here in Belgium in the most parts. Maybe that has to do with it as well. 

[Gazz292]

I know the speed limit over the junction / points plays a part too, 

There's a lot of 40 or 60 km/h junctions in the SimRail universe, so they are not going to be as smooth to go over than a 100+ km/h junction i'd guess,  and a junction that can be traversed at 160 km/h + should be smooth as silk,  

SimRail is set in 2018, so even a cab ride on the PKP today may be 'more comfortable' than it was 5 years ago, as a lot of work is being put into upgrading the Polish railway network.

[DazT]

You need to travel on a Class 350 over here, the back end is terrible compared to the leading end.

[giBBer8]

Not to be "that guy", but the bump over pointwork is pretty realistic to be fair. 

No two sets ride the same though depending on the unit or loco spring/damper wear, packing of the point ends, etc. But I think it's replicated well in Sim.

[DazT]

There used to be a set of points at Stechford (well, the points are still there) here in the UK on the Down line that had a notorious kick to them in about the early 2000s, it was there for months, and the whole carriage used to sway, and I when I mean sway, a violent right hand lurch and then a left hand one. They got it sorted after about 6 months (it was the bad of days of Railtrack though). I only remember as one day I nearly dropped my cigarette (yep, that's how long ago it was, Coach B, Smoking, right behind the loco!)

Edited June 2, 2023 by DazT

[Gazz292]

I read UK train drivers 'lives / autobiography' books a lot, i am always reading about how much a loco lurches, bumps and bangs about on the 'road' 
This is what helps the driver know where they are along the route even in the dark,

some of the descriptions of the 'kicks' from the different points sound like 5mph faster and the train would have derailed... yet they were traveling at the line speed. 

A common trick to play on someone who had managed to get a cab ride pass was to give them a cup of tea just before you set off, then watch as they spill it all over the place from the 'normal ride' of a locomotive.

[lDestinyl]

 

The 1st video is a passage through the reconstructed avoidance and the ride is clean (''no swinging''). 

 

https://youtu.be/ubFGgM08I5o?t=16631

2. video with the "two" E469.2 is the equivalent of EU07 (the old bit) on an older section of line. You can see the bumping rather than the swinging. Apart from wanting to improve the sounds considerably.

 

 

Edited June 2, 2023 by lDestinyl

[GreatLeviathan]

4 hours ago, lDestinyl said:

The 1st video is a passage through the reconstructed avoidance and the ride is clean (''no swinging''). 

https://youtu.be/ubFGgM08I5o?t=16631

2. video with the "two" E469.2 is the equivalent of EU07 (the old bit) on an older section of line. You can see the bumping rather than the swinging. Apart from wanting to improve the sounds considerably.

Yes it deffo shakes that is for sure, but in the game the loco actually goes up and down as if you drive over a 1 meter speedbump. 

As seen in this video as i might be explaining it wrong lol English isn't my first language. As he goes over the junction, the train acts as if moving over a small mountain. 
But could indeed be like some have said in past comments it all depends on the country etc. I know that Belgium/Netherlands/Germany etc have really smooth and great railways. 

[lDestinyl]

1 minute ago, GreatLeviathan said:

Yes it deffo shakes that is for sure, but in the game the loco actually goes up and down as if you drive over a 1 meter speedbump. 

As seen in this video as i might be explaining it wrong lol English isn't my first language. As he goes over the junction, the train acts as if moving over a small mountain. 
But could indeed be like some have said in past comments it all depends on the country etc. I know that Belgium/Netherlands/Germany etc have really smooth and great railways. 

I agree, that's why I compared the two videos where there is a new and old track in CR. Yes I know that some Polish tracks are in a deplorable condition, but this is really a lot. Personally the overall sounds when going through a sharper corner are practically non-existent. They should focus on this, completely redo the whole sound system ... it's absolutely basic. Sorry for the little digression. If you've noticed, the train sways from side to side and the show as well. These scripts could use some work too.

[giBBer8]

I'm not going to argue a 'video clip' versus reality point, but to answer @GreatLeviathan, hell yes. Sometimes the loco jumps like going over a 1 metre speed bump. My legs are a testament to many a hot cup of tea sloshing upon them.

The main suspension on a loco is vertical, lateral play gets worse as floats and wear plates wear out. Every loco is different on every piece of track, every train brakes differently from the last.

 

 

[Deadlost]

I can't find the clip again, but I have seen video from trackside  when ever an axle passed over the ties it would dip into the ballast a bit. I can understand this dipp to be less as you would pass a switch as the ties are wider under the switch and resulting in a jump because of more footprint to spread the load. It would not sink in so much.
And then on modern high speed rails, there would be no sway or hilly switch.

I think the clip i saw was from an old heritage line or something were track would be in a poor quality compared to modern standards.

Hopefully the effect can be adjusted by route designers or something down the line 🙂 

Edited June 2, 2023 by Deadlost

[GreatLeviathan]

On 6/2/2023 at 7:52 PM, lDestinyl said:

I agree, that's why I compared the two videos where there is a new and old track in CR. Yes I know that some Polish tracks are in a deplorable condition, but this is really a lot. Personally the overall sounds when going through a sharper corner are practically non-existent. They should focus on this, completely redo the whole sound system ... it's absolutely basic. Sorry for the little digression. If you've noticed, the train sways from side to side and the show as well. These scripts could use some work too.

I do agree with you on the sounds part. It is good but compared to Train sim world it can use some work. 

[Gazz292]

tsw really does not do sounds that well, 

Drive a train in railworks / train sim classic to see how railway sounds should be done...
simple things like reverb so the horn echo's a bit when sounded in a tunnel or cutting,
the sound when you go over a bridge / viaduct is simply awesome, both tsw and SimRail do not play any different sounds in this case... hopefully thats for the future in SimRail. 

tsw does have a major issue with being limited to 32 sounds played at any one time, that is way to few sounds channels for a train simulator,   you notice this a lot with lack of flange squeal in all but a few places, and when you do hear the flange squeal it's a simple repeated (badly) loop with no variation playing on the loco only, and you notice you have lost the track clicking sounds to allow the squeal to play. 

 

[GreatLeviathan]

37 minutes ago, Gazz292 said:

tsw really does not do sounds that well, 

Drive a train in railworks / train sim classic to see how railway sounds should be done...
simple things like reverb so the horn echo's a bit when sounded in a tunnel or cutting,
the sound when you go over a bridge / viaduct is simply awesome, both tsw and SimRail do not play any different sounds in this case... hopefully thats for the future in SimRail. 

tsw does have a major issue with being limited to 32 sounds played at any one time, that is way to few sounds channels for a train simulator,   you notice this a lot with lack of flange squeal in all but a few places, and when you do hear the flange squeal it's a simple repeated (badly) loop with no variation playing on the loco only, and you notice you have lost the track clicking sounds to allow the squeal to play. 

Oh yes very true about Train Sim classic. Only issue i have with that one is that the graphics are extremely outdated and the crossings are terrible as they sound as loud as if you are standing right next to the speaker lol. In a cab you barely hear the crossing sounds. Also the fact that the base game is basically an empty shell and if you want anything decent you have to buy DLC's that are overpriced mostly as well as they cost more than the game itself lol. 

[lDestinyl]

TSW has, in my opinion, a great sound system as the wheels clack, crossing over the curves of mainly freight trains. They are believable and at least sufficient. Definitely 3 times better than SR. The sound is clear and pleasantly spacious.

[Gazz292]

Have you played railworks / train sim classic? 

the sound in that is miles better than tsw, 
tsw has always had sound issues, a lot of it due to their 32 sound limit, at one point they even admitted they had issues with sound and said 'we may have to look into getting in a professional sound engineer to look at the problem' !!! 

They are a multi million £ company, and won't pay for a professional to sort their sounds out until half the community complains (and as of when i gave up on tsw last year, the sound system was still pretty crap to my ears as afaik they haddn't got this 'sound pro' in to look at the issue. 

[lDestinyl]

What kind of thieves DTG are is a whole other debate for a very long time. I say if they were at least like TSW it would be much better for me at least. Otherwise, last time I played Train Simulator ... I think 10 and the sounds weren't great, but I'm not playing it because of the horrible graphics.
 

My point is that SR doesn't offer that set of sounds.

Edited June 5, 2023 by lDestinyl

[Randknu]

Having driven older locomotives and newer in Norway. EL14 has a rough ride, it is a six axle loco and the suspensjon is made of coil and leaf springs. It will throw you around the cab if the track is bad, and if the wheels are worn and dampers are bad it's even worse. I have also driven the traxx type 185, which is similar in most respects to the 186 but the driving controls are much better on the 185 as it has no time set controls, hold to set brake, hold to increase traction, hold to increase cruise control and so on. But the sounds are spot on. The traxx rides like a cadillac, but does not like curves very much. I also drive the EL18 today and that is somwhere in between, the ride is harder than the traxx but it takes the curves better.

I still think that some switches are insane in the eu07 as i was sure i was off the rails. And that was the straight route through a switch.