Dispatchers falling asleep

[Snowpig]

So, several times I have witnessed dispatchers falling asleep when playing late in the evening - well, once fell asleep myself during a period with no activity around my station.

My issue with sleeping dispatchers is: not only they do not play, but they also affect the train drivers who clog around the station with the time. And I think you - as developers - have much more important things to do than waiting for complaints in forum/discord and logging off sleepy players.

Hence my idea: You add a coffee machine to each dispatcher room. And between 00:00 and 06:00 AM a system similar to the awareness system activates: The player gets a message like "You get sleepy. Please get a coffee" So the dispatcher needs to actively turn around and click on the coffee machine - maybe with some nice animation of drinking coffee. If the player does not respond to it after 1-5 minutes, he will be logged off automatically.

Any thoughs on that? 🙂

 

[Schyrsivochter]

Activity check as part of gameplay. Brilliant idea, I love it.

[Jason35]

Would also be a cool idea to add a door with a toilets sign on it. When you click you have around 5 minutes where the AI can take over while you go to bathroom IRL

Edited March 6, 2023 by Jason35

[Kaito Kid]

58 minutes ago, Jason35 said:

Would also be a cool idea to had a door with a toilets sign on it. When you click you have atound 5 minutes where the AI can take over while you go to bathroom IRL

Actually... That doesn't sound bad. 😝

[DazT]

My only gripe to the idea is when you're on a panel where there's a half hour gap in the timetable (even Zawiercie has a 10 minute gap of nothing if you know where to look!) I shouldn't be expected to be alerted every 5 minutes to see if I'm still awake, even if I haven't got any trains. 

 

 

[Aero1995]

1 hour ago, DazT said:

My only gripe to the idea is when you're on a panel where there's a half hour gap in the timetable (even Zawiercie has a 10 minute gap of nothing if you know where to look!) I shouldn't be expected to be alerted every 5 minutes to see if I'm still awake, even if I haven't got any trains. 

During playtesting there was an attempt by the developers to do this but you had to move the mouse every 5 minutes or so and after a couple of days they removed this system from the game because it was very annoying. A system should be developed to monitor the trains in front of the station and if there are a lot of trains standing for a certain time, the game should ask you "are you here"?

[DazT]

I'm still in two minds, not sure the majority should suffer for the minority who fall asleep! 🤣

Edited March 4, 2023 by DazT

[Snowpig]

vor 15 Stunden schrieb DazT:

My only gripe to the idea is when you're on a panel where there's a half hour gap in the timetable (even Zawiercie has a 10 minute gap of nothing if you know where to look!) I shouldn't be expected to be alerted every 5 minutes to see if I'm still awake, even if I haven't got any trains. 

I would let that depend on arriving trains. As soon as you have a train arriving at your inbound signal, start counting the time. After 5 minutes without any mouse movement/keyboard input -> request visit of the coffee maker.

[giBBer8]

It is a real surprise to me how simmers see train driving to be - this adrenaline-fuelled 8 hours of frothing pleasure.

It really isn't. Being a driver is soooo boring for 90% of any shift, once the novelty wears off. 

Same for a signal person in a rural box, do a crossword if you have 30 minutes spare.... 

Edited March 4, 2023 by giBBer8
Spellinz

[DazT]

Even in an overall busy box it can be boring too, especially if everything is on time. 

Most railway workers will tell you they prefer it when the job is up the wall, I know I do. 

[Gazz292]

i imagine a lot of people who play train driving games only do so because they chose a different route and train every time, that's why people were demanding a new route and new trains in SimRail within a week of early access, they treat it like a platform type game, once you've reached the end of the line you need a new level.

I've driven pretty much the same train over and over in SimRail (EU07 on the 14100 services) each time i drive something different happens due to the multiplayer bit, but i don't get bored as i am treating it as a simulator not a game, so the goal is to learn the route, drive to the schedule, stop at the right place on the platforms in a gentle manner and so on.

but at the end of the day, train driving and dispatching is very very repetitive, that's how a timetabled service is supposed to be.
however we get to chose the train service / signal box we use in the sim, in real life you drive what you are told, and dispatch on the shift you are due to work. 

It's similar working on road transport, truckers often drive the same route every day / week, i used to drive recovery trucks, so the destination was always different, but after a few years i new pretty much every bump and pothole of the main trunk roads. 

[Henry F]

49 minutes ago, Gazz292 said:

i imagine a lot of people who play train driving games only do so because they chose a different route and train every time, that's why people were demanding a new route and new trains in SimRail within a week of early access, they treat it like a platform type game, once you've reached the end of the line you need a new level.

I've driven pretty much the same train over and over in SimRail (EU07 on the 14100 services) each time i drive something different happens due to the multiplayer bit, but i don't get bored as i am treating it as a simulator not a game, so the goal is to learn the route, drive to the schedule, stop at the right place on the platforms in a gentle manner and so on.

but at the end of the day, train driving and dispatching is very very repetitive, that's how a timetabled service is supposed to be.
however we get to chose the train service / signal box we use in the sim, in real life you drive what you are told, and dispatch on the shift you are due to work. 

It's similar working on road transport, truckers often drive the same route every day / week, i used to drive recovery trucks, so the destination was always different, but after a few years i new pretty much every bump and pothole of the main trunk roads. 

I have yet to drive from Katowice to Warsaw W. on MP the whole way. I never get a long enough block of time to do it, even when I am driving the Pendolino.

[iPanuzzo]

The implementation is easy. The disp should be bothered by Disp. SIFA _only_ when there are train(s) waiting for red signals and the time to arrive/departure reached. If he/she is AFK, he will be kicked. Otherwise he can do whatever he wants to (including not moving mouse, not pressing anything). Once there is red and disp doesnt do anything, he should be bothered with some 2+5 captcha and 10 seconds to solve.
This will also help with the trains being forgotten on the station (seen this at SG and KZ).

[DazT]

I still partially disagree, some panels are already full on without more additional gumpf being flashed up on the screen, it's bad enough having to send "Train X departed" every 30 seconds to AI boxes that get their knickers in a twist if you don't tell them within 2.2 seconds!

There are occasions where trains must be shown a legitimate red signal, for example if a train is running early, another train is booked first into a platform and the train being held at the red is required to follow the first for the purposes of the timetable, I don't want some silly message coming up. If the devs go down that road then it'll be the end of me manning dispatching posts and I'll stick to driving only.

However I do agree that there needs to be some mechanism for lazy people that bring trains to a grinding halt, but without penalising the players that have the ability to stay awake.

Personally I'd do some sort of three strikes rule, so if you constantly mess up on Zw (a level 5 panel), then you get demoted and can only work Level 1 to 4 boxes, mess up on level 4 three times and that drops to Level 1 to 3 boxes being available, etc, etc. To get back up the ranking you'd have to do X hours without major incidents to regain your competency to work the higher level boxes. 

Edited March 5, 2023 by DazT

[Snowpig]

vor 14 Stunden schrieb DazT:

There are occasions where trains must be shown a legitimate red signal, for example if a train is running early, another train is booked first into a platform and the train being held at the red is required to follow the first for the purposes of the timetable, I don't want some silly message coming up. If the devs go down that road then it'll be the end of me manning dispatching posts and I'll stick to driving only.

I am quite sure that you do not sit around doing nothing while waiting for that other train. The idea is that the silly message pops up when you have a train waiting and doing no other inputs to the game at all.

 

[DazT]

If it's a while away then no, I don't do nothing, I go and make a cuppa, have a wee etc. just like I do at work, in a real signal box. We don't sit and stare at a screen/panel of nothing!

Edited March 5, 2023 by DazT

[Gazz292]

maybe it doesn't happen nowadays, but i like to read books about the 1940's to 80's uk railways, and the signallers back then would be on the shared phone line between boxes pretty much all the time, 

When it was quiet / no trains due, they'd just chat, tell stories, one was an opera singer in his spare time so he would sing to everyone,  basically making their own entertainment, 
As soon as the bells started ringing for train movements,  the signallers stopped chatting and did their job,  
but they didn't just sit there staring into space waiting for the next train to be passed to them. 

But i've seen that some drivers complain when they hear the dispatchers over the radio in SimRail talking to each other about things not related to the sim, so you can't win it seems.

[Snowpig]

yeah, you are happily throwing edge cases together. Let me untangle your arguments into proper cases:

1) no train, dispatcher reads/goes to toilet/kisses his wife -> nothing happens

2) train at red signal, dispatcher is waiting for other train (which usually means: he checks the table/screen, the schedule, talks to the trains) -> nothing happens

3) train at red signal, dispatcher is sleeping - thus no input comes to the game at all for more than 5 minutes: -> message and then kick, when no reaction

this is the core of my idea - nothing more.

 

[Gazz292]

Maybe 5 minutes is too long? 

The uk had 'Rule 55' which was something like, if you are held at a red signal for more than 2 minutes, you are to contact the signaller to be sure (s)he knows about your train (before radios and signalpost telephones, you'd send usually your fireman or the guard to the signal box) 

Now this rule was more to prevent the signaller forgetting about your train and sending another one into the back of it, but there had been cases where the signaller was found asleep due to the signal box being a remote one with very little traffic. 

I read that the modern UK railway has a revised rule 55, now it's often enacted via a button on the in cab radio to press that sends a 'train standing at signal' message to the signal box. 

 

In SimRail, when i am held at a red signal, i'd press the ZEW3 button on the radio after about a minute, but i don't think this does anything to non Ai signal boxes (does it do anything in MP at all?) 
Then i may send a message asking if the dispatcher knows i'm waiting at a signal (last night was the first time ever i managed to use the SimRail radio for voice properly, i've always had issues with voice based coms in real life) 

 

Anyway, if this 'train standing at signal' text message was a pre-selected message, then it could maybe ring the dispatchers phone, or sound the ZEW3 tone on the radio, then pop up a message box on the dispatchers screens, to which they have to respond to within 30 - 45 seconds, if no response a 15 second countdown timer starts, which switches  back to Ai control of the box? 

 

[DazT]

See if the game simulator had proper GSM-R you'd have an 'SG' button on it, well we have it in the UK and as it's a EU standard I guess that it's the same in all countries that have GSM-R and that sends a text message to a terminal in the controlling signal box.

The signaller then has three options that come up when you select the train that contacted you, Send a preset 'Wait at signal' message, call the train concerned or to remove the message.

Edited March 5, 2023 by DazT

[Schyrsivochter]

The lack of GSM-R in the simulator is due to the lack of GSM-R in Poland in reality.

 

Also I think that function is probably specific to the UK implementation of GSM-R.

 

[Gazz292]

yep the SG button is what i was on about, 

But SimRail ATM is set in Poland in 2018, GSMR is available in a few places, but they still use the old analog radios, the ZEW1 and ZEW3 buttons send a tone when pressed, ZEW1's tone is to alert drivers, ZEW3 is to alert dispatchers, but afaik on SimRail these tones are not heard over other peoples radios... like the radio stop button only affects your own train (but thats deliberate as people could troll it by joining a server, pressing the radio stop to stop all trains in range,  then move to the next server and do the same) 

Edited March 5, 2023 by Gazz292

[DazT]

That SG button is a godsend, especially with stuff running ahead of time or getting relief "Hit the SG when you're ready" or "Tell your relief to hit SG when you're ready to go", gone are the days of clearing a signal and waiting, and waiting, and waiting with no movement or of course you can ring them direct.

Edited March 5, 2023 by DazT

[Gazz292]

At least back with the old semaphore signals the signaller could shake the signal by moving the lever back and forth,  that usually woke a dozing driver up... flashing a signal light on and off just doesn't have the same effect i imagine 😄
 

[DazT]

One of the old boys taught me that before the days of GSM-R and out of the CSR area, where it was primarily Signal Post Telephone land. Most of our lines are 4 track, parallel running and I said one day "I can't get hold of this driver" and he said "Waggle the signal", with me looking rather confused at him. So he showed me, clear and replace to danger a couple of times on a signal next to the one I needed to speak to (with no train approaching that one of course!), low and behold the driver came on the SPT! "You after me?"

When I say old, he's an ex-BR fireman before he come into boxes for a quiet life and is still working! Trick apparently with semaphores was to hang a fire bucket off the small end of the counterweight, when the signal cleared the bucket would fall off making a clang. 

Edited March 7, 2023 by DazT