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Similar to train drivers it would be good to introduce some points. After a very long ride with eurocity, the dispatcher sent me to the wrong track without a platform and i lost 1000 points. Some evaluation of cleared trains etc. Compliance with the timetable 🙂

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  • 3 months later...

I can see that in the long term we are going to need some kind of reputation system. Apart from the issue of players attempting to dispatch above their competence level, hours of experience dispatching is not a measure of suitability for cooperative play. We currently have a dispatcher who plays very frequently and must have many hours of experience who will divert and stop a player train in a passing track to make them and following player trains late, for no apparent reason other than his own entertainment.

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On 2/2/2023 at 8:26 AM, kyjos_CZ said:

Similar to train drivers it would be good to introduce some points. After a very long ride with eurocity, the dispatcher sent me to the wrong track without a platform and i lost 1000 points. Some evaluation of cleared trains etc. Compliance with the timetable 🙂

As a train driver you need to know where you're going, in case a train is sent into a track which is not the correct one and the driver fails to notice, both driver and dispatcher are at fault. I honestly don't know how you can "evaluate" a dispatcher in the sim as it's quite tricky.

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10 hours ago, Kaito Kid said:

As a train driver you need to know where you're going, in case a train is sent into a track which is not the correct one and the driver fails to notice, both driver and dispatcher are at fault. I honestly don't know how you can "evaluate" a dispatcher in the sim as it's quite tricky.

As a driver approaching a station, would you know that you've been switched to a track without a platform, and with enough time to stop and inform the dispatcher? It's absolutely the dispatcher's responsibility to ensure that a train with a scheduled passenger stop is routed via a platform.

As for evaluation, as drivers we cannot fully see the big picture and have to trust the decisions of dispatchers, but there are times when it's very obvious that the dispatcher is incompetent or messing with us, such as the OP's example. We can see our own train's timetable for the next few stations so we know when a dispatcher is deviating from it, and we can see other traffic via the tracking pages on 3rd-party websites, so it's not difficult to know when a dispatcher has, for example, stopped us in a passing track for no reason and made us and following traffic late.

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3 hours ago, moblet1 said:

As a driver approaching a station, would you know that you've been switched to a track without a platform, and with enough time to stop and inform the dispatcher? It's absolutely the dispatcher's responsibility to ensure that a train with a scheduled passenger stop is routed via a platform.

As for evaluation, as drivers we cannot fully see the big picture and have to trust the decisions of dispatchers, but there are times when it's very obvious that the dispatcher is incompetent or messing with us, such as the OP's example. We can see our own train's timetable for the next few stations so we know when a dispatcher is deviating from it, and we can see other traffic via the tracking pages on 3rd-party websites, so it's not difficult to know when a dispatcher has, for example, stopped us in a passing track for no reason and made us and following traffic late.

In real life you need to know the infrastructure, station and what tracks have or have not a platform so yes, if you enter a track which you're suspicious/know that doesn't have a platform, you need to stop and await instructions... So answering your question maybe I wouldn't be able to stop before fully entering the train to a certain track, but again, the important thing is to stop as soon as you are aware of it.

Same applies to tracks without platforms and in junctions:
https://www.eltriangle.eu/es/2023/05/15/un-tren-de-ferrocarrils-de-la-generalitat-se-equivoca-de-via-y-envia-a-los-pasajeros-a-sabadell-cuando-querian-ir-a-terrassa/

In both cases if the driver fails to stop driver is at fault too. Maybe only happens that driver is at fault in Spanish regulations but not in the rest of countries? I'm curious about Australia, what kind of rules does a driver have to follow if he/she is being sent to a wrong track/direction?

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15 minutes ago, Kaito Kid said:

if the driver fails to stop driver is at fault too

Trying to divide accountability in the case of one particular type of dispatcher error is premature, unless a case is being made that dispatchers have no responsibilities and should have zero accountability. The question being asked here is whether and how to hold dispatchers accountable for their errors, and the division of accountability for failing to send a stopping train to a platform only becomes relevant to SimRail if and when a decision is made to introduce an accountability system for dispatchers.

The way I look at dispatching is that it's a responsibility towards the performance of a system. If a driver has to stop their train because I've made a mistake, I haven't only disrupted that driver, I've disrupted a system. The driver might still make their required stop but my error has delayed them, and this could have consequences for the system and the people in it that I can't see from my little room overlooking my little patch of track.

I'm not arguing that we all need to be perfect. It's just a game, most of us are amateurs, and we all make mistakes, but IMO allowing chronically incompetent or disruptive dispatching will kill the public multiplayer experience. Time will tell whether this becomes a major issue.

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6 hours ago, moblet1 said:

As a driver approaching a station, would you know that you've been switched to a track without a platform

Comes down to route knowledge

I've got very good at it on the CMK at Op and Wp when booked a station call in that if I'm not checked down at the distant and the last ABS then I know I've been wrong-routed through rather train into a/the platform. I have a method as I'm approaching a station where I know I've got a booked stop, I call out loud "Arrows, Circle and Stripes", "Arrows" is the distant, so start paying attention and knocking the speed off, "Circle" (the ABS plate on the signal), if this is Green it's time to really throw the anchor out of the window before you hit "Stripes", the first controlled signal that determines your fate as to where you are actually going, if this is green with no 40/60/100 speed bar on it then I'll stop at that signal until the route is reset correctly.

Which brings me onto replacing signals to danger, now in UK rules a signal should not be returned to danger (red) unless the driver is aware (and agrees!) or it's an emergency, and I'm pretty certain that the Polish signalling regulations/rules would be exactly the same. I've had it a few times where the signal has just been thrown back in my face to red, not cricket. ASK FIRST! 

 

Edited by DazT
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It is part of my qualifications to know where I can and can't go with my train and the signals that can indicate I may have been routed wrong. I have had dispatchers accidently line me for routes that the train I'm on is prohibited for whatever reason and basically saved their ass because I know my territory like I'm supposed to.

 

5 hours ago, DazT said:

Which brings me onto replacing signals to danger, now in UK rules a signal should not be returned to danger (red) unless the driver is aware (and agrees!) or it's an emergency, and I'm pretty certain that the Polish signalling regulations/rules would be exactly the same. I've had it a few times where the signal has just been thrown back in my face to red, not cricket. ASK FIRST! 

I heard a player last time I played that while they were dispatching SG, they told a freight to speed it up or they will take their signal away. Thats not how it works. Once you lined that route, you can't just take it away. You do that in real life, its a real quick way to get yourself fired. I've seen it before too. You ask the crew if they can safely stop before the signal or just suffer the consequences of your routing decisions.

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8 hours ago, moblet1 said:

The question being asked here is whether and how to hold dispatchers accountable for their errors, and the division of accountability for failing to send a stopping train to a platform only becomes relevant to SimRail if and when a decision is made to introduce an accountability system for dispatchers.

Fair point but as I said, it's going to be quite the challenge.

 

8 hours ago, moblet1 said:

I'm not arguing that we all need to be perfect. It's just a game, most of us are amateurs, and we all make mistakes.

 

As I said several times before I take Simrail as a serious simulator and not a game, for that we already have other "train simulators", I think that this simulator should (more or less) be at the level of Flight Simulator (in a future) in terms of gameplay/operation. 

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I still think there should be an inbuilt grading for both dispatchers and drivers alike. 

For dispatchers (signallers) you should have accumulated a certain amount of time in the lower grade boxes before you can work boxes of the next grade up and higher, being able to hop straight on Katowice or Zawiercie with the minimum time as driving single player is madness. 

Similarly, for drivers I think you should have to start with local passenger diagrams first, then after a certain time it then allows you to drive EC stuff and freights and then finally opens up to allow you to drive the Pendolino (Top link driving) 

Therefore you'd then get an appreciation of what it's like to work other trains and their complexities and hopefully stop this nonsense of demanding greens just because you're driving a Pendolino and idiots driving round like they're trying to break the land speed record. 

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