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Posted (edited)
4 godziny temu, Gazz292 napisał(a):

But it's the 3 and 4 state ABS i'm unsure about,  with the thing where a steady green can mean more than 1 OR 2 blocks are free, depending on if the signals are 3 or 4 state versions (how do you tell?)

You don't need to know this. Driver does not need to concern himself either the ABS is 3- or 4-state.

S4 signal (blinking yellow) does not exist on ABS. That would make it 5-state, innit? 🙂

S5 signal (steady yellow) means 100kph now, STOP on next signal. This is incorrect. S5 only ever means Vmax now, expect STOP

If we want to be really technical: Sz signal (substitute) is a blinking white light valid with every other non-existing signal on rest of the lights. So Yellow-Red-Yellow-Blinking White is also Sz. But, if a signal is a valid one on its own, and there is a blinking white (so Green-Blinking White OR Yellow-Yellow-Blinking White) you must stop the train as it would be a single red signal. This indicates a serious electrical fault at dispatcher's end, as it must be impossible to display substitute with any other valid signal.

Edited by bprog
misinformation
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Posted

ahh,
i added the blinking yellow on the ABS as i saw it in SimRail last time i played, it was a 3 aspect signal, and after passing it the HUD changed to 'yellow, 100 km/h restriction'

but i didn't notice if it had the 'W18' shield on the post, meaning that signal was the last ABS one, and the next was a semi-automatic one.

 

Working on correcting the ABS signals now, will upload the new version when it's done.

Posted

That "power off" for We8 and "on" for We9 is also little misleading (signs for neutral sections). It sounds, at least for me, that you have turn off whole locomotive where you only have to set power at zero position.

There is missing important sign W19 (warning sing for W20, sign with arrows). Sign W13 is not important to know in game right now (for snow ploughs) so you can replace that one with W19 (sign with one arrow).

 

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Posted

What you have signed as "penultimate block signal" is sign, which can be translated as "here should stay distant signal for entry signal to station" and if there is no signal with this sign, it means you should stop because it was stolen or something like this. It is placed on last block signal, when ABS is 3-state, or penultimate, when ABS is 4-state. It is caused by the fact, that in theory 4-state ABS is for high speed, when you need two blocks for smooth braking to stop a train.

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, robert357 said:

That "power off" for We8 and "on" for We9 is also little misleading (signs for neutral sections). It sounds, at least for me, that you have turn off whole locomotive where you only have to set power at zero position.

There is missing important sign W19 (warning sing for W20, sign with arrows). Sign W13 is not important to know in game right now (for snow ploughs) so you can replace that one with W19 (sign with one arrow).

 

 

Yeah, i was unsure what phrase to use that is not too long for some of the descriptions.....

"Indicators We 8a, We 8b, We 8c “Dead-driving indicators” mean
the place through which the electric traction vehicle should pass without
drawing traction current from the traction network"   

.... is what i tried to condense into less than 6 words.

 

W19... i tried to make out that W20 kinda covered that... they both mean reduced braking distance... but i can change it to show that W20 will be preceded by W19, and try and put the differences (again it's that 6 word limit thing.

Edited by Gazz292
Posted
2 minutes ago, Królik Uszasty said:

What you have signed as "penultimate block signal" is sign, which can be translated as "here should stay distant signal for entry signal to station" and if there is no signal with this sign, it means you should stop because it was stolen or something like this. It is placed on last block signal, when ABS is 3-state, or penultimate, when ABS is 4-state. It is caused by the fact, that in theory 4-state ABS is for high speed, when you need two blocks for smooth braking to stop a train.

Thank you,  i noticed that there were 2 meanings for the W1 sign, depending on if it's mounted on the signal post or as a separate sign before a signal,

How do you tell the difference between 3 or 4 state signals?
is it just that if you are on a high speed line (is that 160 km/h?) it's 4 state, and low speed line it's 3 state.

i originally had another set of signals in the cheat sheet like below... but thought i could be clever and reduce the ABS bit to one line, but i also wanted to show that 'S3' could mean '100 km/h at next signal' if that signal post is the last ABS one (has a W18 sign on the post)
Working on putting it back to 2 lines of Automatic Block Signals now

image.png.bfc3eaf30e63e45a33dca606a874ef1f.png

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Posted
7 hours ago, Footz said:

@Gazz292 Wow, thanks for your work, I'll print it out straight away for reference.

Just remember the version i posted yesterday (03/01) is wrong,
i am working on it right now, and will have the corrected version ready to post soon for people to look at and tell me if i have other mistakes to correct,

The idea is i release a zip file with high resolution versions in different formats, so it can be printed say in landscape on A4 paper, folded in half to make a double sided A5 sheet, and versions to display on a phone and flip / swipe between the panels etc.

Posted (edited)

Well, I'm no railway expert but looking at your "Track ahead closed" sign, from what I've read in the manual, this looks like a ridgid (non switchable) sign warning about approaching an entry signal/semaphore. I'm writing non switchable, because it looks like one on your sheet, but there are folding options and options with lights as well. They are however usually mechanical and are phased out. Only ones left are on some backwater stations I'd imagine, where modernisation hasn't arrived yet. 

So I wouldn't call it track ahead closed, more like "possible STOP signal ahead" or if foldable, it will state the signal aspect.

I'll wait for your booklet then.

Cheers

sign.jpg

folded_sign.jpg

Edited by Footz
Posted

ahh... the one in my signs section is a 'DO' portable shield, not an 'OT - 1, 2 or 3 mechanical distant signal'
it's a temporary sign placed at braking distance + 200 meters before a 'D1' shield, which is the red oblong shield that means 'STOP, track closed'

From the 2020 signal book : DO signal "Behind the warning shield there is a stop shield"

but i see how it can be confused,,, i will change it's description to something like 'caution, expect stop ahead' or something like that.

 

I believe SimRail will have an earlier time period track system to go with the steam train when that is released later, when that happens i will need to add the old mechanical signals to my sheet,  but for now i am keeping them out as it can be confusing enough for someone new to SimRail to learn the signals and signs likely to be seen as they drive,

i struggle myself with wanting to give too much info at once and get technical, but i want the cheat sheet to be something people can pick up and glance at as they pass a signal or sign.... find the relevant picture and read 'ahh, that semi-automatic signal combo means i should....pass this signal at vMax, and expect a 100 km/h speed reduction at the next signal.... or ... i should have turned the traction power off as i passed that weird blue diamond signs with a face on it.

 

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Posted
19 godzin temu, Gazz292 napisał(a):

How do you tell the difference between 3 or 4 state signals?
is it just that if you are on a high speed line (is that 160 km/h?) it's 4 state, and low speed line it's 3 state.

It's a bit more complicated. In Poland driver has this information printed in his timetable - if there is ABS or no and if it is 3- or 4-state and if it is bidirectional. Simple explanation is that high speed is 4-state and low speed is 3-state. The history of it is a bit more complicated, you have to go back about 40 years when high speed of 160 kph was introduced in CMK line.

Basic maximal signal distance (between distant signal and signal) and braking distance (for trains) is equal and is 1300 m. This is enough for standard carriages up to 140 km/h. The stopping distance of these carriages is about 1000 m, so with safety coefficient it fits. However, when introducing 160 kph there was no possibility that train of carriages with shoe brake can be stopped on such distance. There was special exception that braking distance on CMK is 1600 meters with signal distance of 1300 m - the ABS Signals were not moved. As you can see, there is a need that driver has to know eralier that he has to stop, so the 4-state ABS can show that he has only 2 blocks free and he has to brake before passing orange signal S5. S3 signal was chosen, because we didn't have better option. Reduction of speed to 100 kph is about a half of kinetic energy for 140 kph (which was first "high" speed).

Another topic is that according to other regulations signal distance should be greater or equal to braking distance, so there was introduced another exception for 4-state ABS that signal distance can be as low as half of braking distance. Of course it caused another problems, but I think we can stop here 😉

Summing up - the driver knowledge of route and timetables is the way how to say if there is 3- or 4-state ABS.

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Posted (edited)

My latest version of the Signs part of the cheat sheet is below, i've changed to having the descriptions below the signs, as that makes more sense, i.e. spot a sign in SimRail, look it up on the sheet and read what it means below it.
please tell me what i've got wrong, or what should get better descriptions please, 

this version is sized for printing at A5 the idea being to print it on half a sheet of A4 paper, the signals bit would be on the other half of the A4 paper, but i am still working on them.

Changed the picture to show the latest version below, made a few corrections.

image.thumb.png.a31032780a452d40fadb27c5d1fe144b.png

Edited by Gazz292
change picture to latest one
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Posted (edited)

The first post now has the latest versions as off 05/01/2023.

Please have a look and tell me things i have got wrong, spelling mistakes etc,

 

Just posted another update, changed  the wording in places and added signal designators... S1, Sz etc,  i might have some of them mixed up tho.

Edited by Gazz292
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Posted

I've just posted the .zip file with the high resolution pictures of the cheat sheet, and updated the first post to do this.

I hope i've not made any really bad mistakes, but if i have, tell me and i will upload a corrected version.

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Posted

Just uploaded a newer version (V1.6)

This includes 3 new views of the sheet, better suited to viewing on a smart phone screen,

And a little folder renaming, and of course updating of the readme file to be even longer now i try to explain about the 4 new images for the phones views... 2 seemingly the same, but they are different layouts of the signs panel, one with 6 signs removed (i say 5, but i forgot about the 'W6' sign) to make it fit on a phone screen better... i'll have a play about and see if i can resize some of the cells and make all signs fit on the phone sized one again,  but the missing signs i 'don't think' are seen in SimRail (yet)

 

i'm also not really liking the name of 'cheat sheets'  there's no cheating involved, this could be a page or 2 in a train drivers rules and regulations book,   a cheat sheet to me is something you use to reference things quickly,
i think i got the name from the sheets pilots use for quick guidance on what to do when preparing the plane for startup, takeoff, landing in certain airports etc.

If anyone can suggest a better name than 'cheat sheet' please do.

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Posted
On 1/9/2023 at 12:46 PM, Gazz292 said:

a cheat sheet to me is something you use to reference things quickly,

If anyone can suggest a better name than 'cheat sheet' please do.

Crib sheet. reference sheet, doesn't really matter Gazz. You've got the info off the internet and compiled it for us all to use. 

TBH, "cheat sheet" is fine. It is a good piece of work, whatever the name.

 

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Posted

Uploaded v1.7.

Corrected the text for the 'We1' prepare to lower pantograph sign, in Poland you should also reduce speed to 60 km/h when doing this.

added a text less version of the sheet, someone asked if they could translate the sheet into another language and share it with their friends, something i am more than happy to have happen.

so to make this easier i have included 2 versions of the sheet with just the pictures and empty text boxes, one in .pdf and the other in a .png picture image.

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