Explorer/Passenger Mode

[Vectron MS]

Dear Simrail Team,

Kindly consider this recommendation for the addition of an explorer and passenger mode for single player where we could free roam and explore routes and stations on foot while AI driven trains run along the route.

From what I have seen from the playtests, Simrail already has developed good functionality in terms of walking on foot and entering doors, and while later on I would enjoy having the ability to use elevators and benches while on foot, the current available functionality would be already sufficient to start adding a feature would greatly benefit Simrail by adding in another dimension of immersing and enjoying the routes. Thank you.

Edited January 5, 2023 by Vectron MS
Improving the recommendation to address concerns from responses in the post and clarification to refine the scope of the recommendation.

[Gazz292]

dont forget to add in the game of pokemon too, so people have things to search for when wandering around the tracks, maybe have broken signals and points that the wanderer could fix by walking upto them,

Thing is, SimRail is a simulator for train driving and dispatching,  it's based on the simulator that is used to train real train drivers,
It's also got the multiplayer aspect, where there are only a certain number of slots on each server,  i for one don't want them taken up by people who want to play train spotter or wander around the railway on foot,   that kind of thing is more suited to a single player game... like tsw... which already does this.

 

people playing tsw already moan that bad things happen when they stop their train in the middle of a section and get out and go wandering looking for donkeys and collectables, like other trains running into the back of the train they left for half an hour... imagine people doing that when the trains stuck behind them are live drivers who are trying to ... 'drive'

 

[Kaito Kid]

If I have to enter a passenger carriage be it for 2 options:

1st one: You have to travel as "passenger" to get a train from another starting point (for example you start at Katowice but you have a freight train starting from Bedzin)

2nd one: You have to release the parking brakes of carriages by hand.

[BigVern]

I don't see passenger option as a gimmick. Sometimes it's just nice to chill and take a sideways view out of the carriage window,

[lDestinyl]

4 hours ago, Gazz292 said:

dont forget to add in the game of pokemon too, so people have things to search for when wandering around the tracks, maybe have broken signals and points that the wanderer could fix by walking upto them,

Thing is, SimRail is a simulator for train driving and dispatching,  it's based on the simulator that is used to train real train drivers,
It's also got the multiplayer aspect, where there are only a certain number of slots on each server,  i for one don't want them taken up by people who want to play train spotter or wander around the railway on foot,   that kind of thing is more suited to a single player game... like tsw... which already does this.

people playing tsw already moan that bad things happen when they stop their train in the middle of a section and get out and go wandering looking for donkeys and collectables, like other trains running into the back of the train they left for half an hour... imagine people doing that when the trains stuck behind them are live drivers who are trying to ... 'drive'

Well, I strongly disagree. If there was a shunt in the game in MP, they could have a second person help me uncouple and plug in the wagons. I'd love to get a ride as a cab helper sometime. These improvements make the game better than just staring dumbly in the cab. It's a GAME..why do some try to make it not fun. These things are called quality of life and the more the game has the better it is.

[Gazz292]

well,  i was hoping for SimRail to be more of a Simulator than yet another train based game,

We already have 20 or more different train driving games out there,  even ones where you can earn points and medals for walking around and finding things (and they have to display legal warnings not to copy this in real life, as some people will actually try hunting donkey statues along live railway lines because they have seen it in the game)

 

What i don't want to see is SimRail become so diluted with lots of different 'modes' that the main part... driving and signalling the trains realistically becomes 'just another point scoring arcade like train game'

Or it becoming more of a 'sims' type game:

Play as a second man and just sit there looking out the window for 5+ hours as you are not needed,
play as a passenger and ride the trains,
play as a signal technician and travel out to fix signals,
play as a poster guy and change advertising hoardings,
play as a breakdown gang and go out to fix trains / infrastructure,
play as a train spotter and collect train numbers and wave at the drivers,
play as a vandal throwing stones at the passing trains,
play as a trespasser and wander about the tracks causing the trains to be restricted to 10 km/h until you are caught,
play as a drunk and pee / puke in the carriages,
play as transport police and deal with the vandals, fare dodgers, trespassers and drunks,
play as a station cat hunting mice and tripping passengers up.

 

[lDestinyl]

14 minutes ago, Gazz292 said:

well,  i was hoping for SimRail to be more of a Simulator than yet another train based game,

We already have 20 or more different train driving games out there,  even ones where you can earn points and medals for walking around and finding things (and they have to display legal warnings not to copy this in real life, as some people will actually try hunting donkey statues along live railway lines because they have seen it in the game)

What i don't want to see is SimRail become so diluted with lots of different 'modes' that the main part... driving and signalling the trains realistically becomes 'just another point scoring arcade like train game'

Or it becoming more of a 'sims' type game:

Play as a second man and just sit there looking out the window for 5+ hours as you are not needed,
play as a passenger and ride the trains,
play as a signal technician and travel out to fix signals,
play as a poster guy and change advertising hoardings,
play as a breakdown gang and go out to fix trains / infrastructure,
play as a train spotter and collect train numbers and wave at the drivers,
play as a vandal throwing stones at the passing trains,
play as a trespasser and wander about the tracks causing the trains to be restricted to 10 km/h until you are caught,
play as a drunk and pee / puke in the carriages,
play as transport police and deal with the vandals, fare dodgers, trespassers and drunks,
play as a station cat hunting mice and tripping passengers up.

 

Can you tell me why shunt is not a simulator ... ? Why is it not a simulator to go with someone in the cab and be either a helper or an instructor if they don't know how to operate the locomotive? Your arguments are all over the place. Points are a reflection of how you drive... The gold medal is like a real-life bonus on your paycheck (I don't want to address points here). You're trying to make MP an asocial game. Why shouldn't I be able to work with someone as is commonly done on tracks in REALITY.

[Gazz292]

well, the main thing i worry about is the griefers and trolls, who already have enough ways to disrupt things,

being able to travel as a passenger... and pull the emergency stop handles, uncouple the train half way along etc?

When walking along the tracks exploring, do you appear as a ghost and trains pass through you, or do you have collision physics added etc?
And how does it work on the servers, is someone wandering about the tracks taking up a slot for a driver or dispatcher etc

[pschlik]

I, for one, will say that I do not appreciate seeing a completely valid feature request shot down as 'gamification like TSW'. Seems to happen far too often on this forum and I'm tired of seeing it! Nothing in the OP said mentions anything about making walking around a scavenger hunt, or pulling emergency cords, hell, there's no mention of multiplayer in there either (this suggestion could be for a single player mode-considered that?)...yet here we are where some people feel the need to twist the story into something it's not in an attempt to discredit the OP's opinion. That's frankly not civil (I'd even say it's gaslighting), doesn't add to the discussion, and could be replaced by saying 'Personally I don't feel the need for this.' or better yet just saying nothing at all and not interfering. After all, this whole subforum is called Suggestions for Improvements, so please don't treat it as if it is "Suggestions Against TSW".

As for walking, right now the whole first-person element does feel under-utilized to me. There's a whole world to see, but with limits imposed both on camera movement and on on-foot movement, it's not so easy to get an up-close appreciation of the world. Best you can do is kill time waiting at a red signal by walking around, which is honestly a decent way to kill said time. This strategy is just too limited and definitely leaves me wishing I could take some walks without having that railroad obligation to run back to when a signal clears up or a train enters my section. It would also be funny to stalk a friend's train and get lots of pictures of it.

Edited January 3, 2023 by pschlik

[lDestinyl]

42 minutes ago, pschlik said:

I, for one, will say that I do not appreciate seeing a completely valid feature request shot down as 'gamification like TSW'. Seems to happen far too often on this forum and I'm tired of seeing it! Nothing in the OP said mentions anything about making walking around a scavenger hunt, or pulling emergency cords, hell, there's no mention of multiplayer in there either (this suggestion could be for a single player mode-considered that?)...yet here we are where some people feel the need to twist the story into something it's not in an attempt to discredit the OP's opinion. That's frankly not civil (I'd even say it's gaslighting), doesn't add to the discussion, and could be replaced by saying 'Personally I don't feel the need for this.' or better yet just saying nothing at all and not interfering. After all, this whole subforum is called Suggestions for Improvements, so please don't treat it as if it is "Suggestions Against TSW".

As for walking, right now the whole first-person element does feel under-utilized to me. There's a whole world to see, but with limits imposed both on camera movement and on on-foot movement, it's not so easy to get an up-close appreciation of the world. Best you can do is kill time waiting at a red signal by walking around, which is honestly a decent way to kill said time. This strategy is just too limited and definitely leaves me wishing I could take some walks without having that railroad obligation to run back to when a signal clears up or a train enters my section. It would also be funny to stalk a friend's train and get lots of pictures of it.

Exactly.. these ¨writers¨ only spam threads without constructive criticism.  

[Kaito Kid]

1 hour ago, lDestinyl said:

It's a GAME..why do some try to make it not fun.

Even though it's a game it's a simulator one... I honestly can't see an air traffic controller doing any other tasks apart from what's supposed to do, or a pilot do any other tasks apart from being at the airplane... Although I have to admit that I would love being able to shunt and form trains (instead of spawning them) as a dispatcher and having a window for the interlocking to set routes on the go while shunting... It might be unrealistic, but it's one of those things that in my opinion should be implemented. That or having "drivers" in the stations for shunting purposees, but I think waiting for those operations would be really booring...

I have to agree with pschlik, I'm really getting tired of having Simrail compared to TSW or adding features that it has, honestly I expect more something (as I said before) on a level of "professionalism" with some procedures and such.

[Gazz292]

i think most people know i am hoping for 'Zusi with good graphics'  and Zusi is a hardcore train driving simulator..... which is also used to train real drivers, like the simulator that SimRail is based on.

So like the people who want a flight sim like thing, that's what i'm hoping for, more realism around the driving and dispatching side of things,
Shunting would be good too, something realistic that a train driver would do, but i can see that outside a big yard it would be kinda boring waiting hours between work in the live time multiplayer side of things.
 

i also need to remember to put the 'in my opinion / personally' in front of most of my posts, but i thought that's was automatically assumed on any forum, it's a place to post our opinions, and not everyone is going to agree with them, that's true anywhere in life.

[lDestinyl]

10 minutes ago, Kaito Kid said:

Even though it's a game it's a simulator one... I honestly can't see an air traffic controller doing any other tasks apart from what's supposed to do, or a pilot do any other tasks apart from being at the airplane... Although I have to admit that I would love being able to shunt and form trains (instead of spawning them) as a dispatcher and having a window for the interlocking to set routes on the go while shunting... It might be unrealistic, but it's one of those things that in my opinion should be implemented. That or having "drivers" in the stations for shunting purposees, but I think waiting for those operations would be really booring...

I have to agree with pschlik, I'm really getting tired of having Simrail compared to TSW or adding features that it has, honestly I expect more something (as I said before) on a level of "professionalism" with some procedures and such.

It's a train simulator and comparisons with TSW are completely unavoidable. Just like comparing Euro truck simulator to Snowrunner. Doing a shunt could be done at larger stations where as Lazy Lc where it would be a lot of work. It's important to think these features through and not just casually implement them. I've been playing TSW for a long time and I'm getting annoyed with its laziness that everything doesn't work. These guys have proven it can be done. We have a working MP, so why not use it properly. Shunt, helper's and TSW will never have MP. SimRail will already be far better when released with all the features.  

[lDestinyl]

6 minutes ago, Gazz292 said:

i think most people know i am hoping for 'Zusi with good graphics'  and Zusi is a hardcore train driving simulator..... which is also used to train real drivers, like the simulator that SimRail is based on.

So like the people who want a flight sim like thing, that's what i'm hoping for, more realism around the driving and dispatching side of things,
Shunting would be good too, something realistic that a train driver would do, but i can see that outside a big yard it would be kinda boring waiting hours between work in the live time multiplayer side of things.
 

i also need to remember to put the 'in my opinion / personally' in front of most of my posts, but i thought that's was automatically assumed on any forum, it's a place to post our opinions, and not everyone is going to agree with them, that's true anywhere in life.

Opinions on the SUBJECT and if you don't like it, you have to suggest a better solution. Everything said here is commonly done in reality ... so what is not a simulation in your opinion? Most people here want a complex game with a large variety of gameplay and options. 

[Gazz292]

ok... if i buy a flight simulator, i expect to fly the planes, and i expect to do so like i am really there in the cockpit operating the controls... as close to reality as is possible with today's consumer computer tech that is.

i don't expect to pack a virtual suitcase, get a taxi to the airport, book in as a passenger, wait for the plane in the passenger lounge, then board the passenger cabin of the plane and sit there looking out the window for 12 hours whilst someone else flies the plane for me.

Like i don't expect to work as cabin crew, or on the check in desk, as a cleaner, or drive the aeroplane towing vehicles / baggage trains etc.
And i deffo do not expect to spawn in and wander around the runway whilst other people are taking off and landing there.

 

if i want to play as a different role to a train driver or a dispatcher, i don't expect to do it so a train driving and dispatching simulator,

If i want to pretend to live as an alternative human going about daily life, i'd play the sims, or GTA, or red dead redemption, or one of the many world / base building games,

i'd like to see the trains in SimRail modeled as realistically as possible, the controls operate as realistically as possible and so on, the signalling operating as realistically as possible,
The scenery is there to see as you go past in your train,

But when you start being able to wander freely about, people need pulling off the train or signal box modeling team to create high res textures of all the towns and villages along the route,
They need to model all the stations fully, all the underpasses, bridges, levels and to make them so you can wander down them along with all the physics to do that, so the people working on train / signalling physics now need to work on 'walk about' physics, etc etc.

 

[lDestinyl]

The buildings are pretty ugly, let's face it. The profession of the engineer includes shunt and training of newcomers (second player in the cab). Already a dispatcher is an extra thing, from what you say. A simulator is an alternative life (SIMULATION). I'll end the debate there and settle your thoughts please. 

[Howky]

 

I'm sure it would be nice if there was at least a possibility:

two drivers on one locomotive ( Driver and helper )
two train dispatchers or even more
Shunters

 

[Howky]

14 hours ago, Gazz292 said:

well, the main thing i worry about is the griefers and trolls, who already have enough ways to disrupt things,

being able to travel as a passenger... and pull the emergency stop handles, uncouple the train half way along etc?

When walking along the tracks exploring, do you appear as a ghost and trains pass through you, or do you have collision physics added etc?
And how does it work on the servers, is someone wandering about the tracks taking up a slot for a driver or dispatcher etc

this can be avoided if private servers are

[Isambard Kingdom Brunel]

17 hours ago, Gazz292 said:

ok... if i buy a flight simulator, i expect to fly the planes, and i expect to do so like i am really there in the cockpit operating the controls... as close to reality as is possible with today's consumer computer tech that is.

i don't expect to pack a virtual suitcase, get a taxi to the airport, book in as a passenger, wait for the plane in the passenger lounge, then board the passenger cabin of the plane and sit there looking out the window for 12 hours whilst someone else flies the plane for me.

Like i don't expect to work as cabin crew, or on the check in desk, as a cleaner, or drive the aeroplane towing vehicles / baggage trains etc.
And i deffo do not expect to spawn in and wander around the runway whilst other people are taking off and landing there.

if i want to play as a different role to a train driver or a dispatcher, i don't expect to do it so a train driving and dispatching simulator,

If i want to pretend to live as an alternative human going about daily life, i'd play the sims, or GTA, or red dead redemption, or one of the many world / base building games,

i'd like to see the trains in SimRail modeled as realistically as possible, the controls operate as realistically as possible and so on, the signalling operating as realistically as possible,
The scenery is there to see as you go past in your train,

But when you start being able to wander freely about, people need pulling off the train or signal box modeling team to create high res textures of all the towns and villages along the route,
They need to model all the stations fully, all the underpasses, bridges, levels and to make them so you can wander down them along with all the physics to do that, so the people working on train / signalling physics now need to work on 'walk about' physics, etc etc.

You are just no fun buddy 🤣🤣.  Mind i left the loco yesterday at a station, went walkies over to the other platform.

AI started departing, so i pressed 1 and i was instantly back in the loco cab. Now that is nuts, player should at least have to be standing next to the loco to gain access. Not the width of 4 tracks away.

[Gazz292]

oh, haven't you heard, Polish trains have built in teleporters 🤯

[Isambard Kingdom Brunel]

I don't like TSW or TSW2, i will not buy TSW3. But at least you have to have physical contact, to gain access to the cab.

[Gazz292]

yeah, but in tsw you can press a button to jump out of a train doing 280 km/h, and sit at the side of the track with your camera whilst it's whizzes past, then you can press another button and be teleported back into the cab.

At least in SimRail when you select the outside view camera, you are sitting on an invisible pole that's tethered to the centre of the train (and you can't see your driver in the train, as the driver is you, sat on that pole holding the camera) 😄

[Isambard Kingdom Brunel]

But and i might be wrong, as i haven't played for donkeys. In TSW walk mode, you cannot just hit 1 and be transferred to the cab.

[SurvivorSean]

I'm cool with transporters.  The guys walking through city scapes at a staiton stop shouldn't be doing that on duty, but I'm glad they do.  I like the idea of saved positions as well similar to my awesome idea for Run8 that was implemented 🙂

Personally I like the "option" of having a passenger mode.  I don't think it's too far out of the realm of simulation but no I'm only kidding about Space Invaders in the signal box.  A simple window and perhaps a tele would be just fine 🙂

Thanks

Sean

[Vectron MS]

On 1/3/2023 at 3:33 PM, Gazz292 said:

i'd like to see the trains in SimRail modeled as realistically as possible, the controls operate as realistically as possible and so on, the signalling operating as realistically as possible,

The scenery is there to see as you go past in your train,

But when you start being able to wander freely about, people need pulling off the train or signal box modeling team to create high res textures of all the towns and villages along the route,
They need to model all the stations fully, all the underpasses, bridges, levels and to make them so you can wander down them along with all the physics to do that, so the people working on train / signalling physics now need to work on 'walk about' physics, etc etc.

@Gazz292 You actually bring up some understandable concerns. To clarify, I intended the functionality for this mode to be quite basic, nothing more than a simple additional means to explore the scenery of routes on foot or watch trains go by. What SimRail currently has in terms of functionality would already be very effective, so I don't think that the investment needed to incorporate would be too much as to take away from the driving experience, and it certainly shouldn't. As for your concerns regarding trolls in multiplayer, this is a mode that is intended for single player mode, so that should not be a problem.

On 1/3/2023 at 1:52 PM, pschlik said:

I, for one, will say that I do not appreciate seeing a completely valid feature request shot down as 'gamification like TSW'. Seems to happen far too often on this forum and I'm tired of seeing it! Nothing in the OP said mentions anything about making walking around a scavenger hunt, or pulling emergency cords, hell, there's no mention of multiplayer in there either (this suggestion could be for a single player mode-considered that?)...yet here we are where some people feel the need to twist the story into something it's not in an attempt to discredit the OP's opinion. That's frankly not civil (I'd even say it's gaslighting), doesn't add to the discussion, and could be replaced by saying 'Personally I don't feel the need for this.' or better yet just saying nothing at all and not interfering. After all, this whole subforum is called Suggestions for Improvements, so please don't treat it as if it is "Suggestions Against TSW".

As for walking, right now the whole first-person element does feel under-utilized to me. There's a whole world to see, but with limits imposed both on camera movement and on on-foot movement, it's not so easy to get an up-close appreciation of the world. Best you can do is kill time waiting at a red signal by walking around, which is honestly a decent way to kill said time. This strategy is just too limited and definitely leaves me wishing I could take some walks without having that railroad obligation to run back to when a signal clears up or a train enters my section. It would also be funny to stalk a friend's train and get lots of pictures of it.

@pschlik Correct, this would be for single player mode. You make a good catch in that point of confustion there, and I have since clarified that in my recommendation. And I do second that the first-person element, especially when it comes to exploring routes on foot, is quite underutilized in terms of it's availability. Simrail currently allows you to walk in and out of a dispatch tower or into a train already, so it makes sense from my view to expand it to an entire mode itself.