Clickable loco manual in cabs, for fault reset procedures etc

[Gazz292]

In a real loco there would be a set of booklets somewhere that the driver can refer to for fault finding help, sometimes instructions on how to start the loco or perform various things etc,  sort of start up checklists like you'd find in a plane. 

Could we get something similar added to the trains in SimRail? 

Say you have just tripped out your EU07 due to iced up wires for the first time and don't know how to reset it (or have done it for the 50th time and it's not resetting as it normally does),
You click on the compartment that the 'manuals' are stored in, and up pops a page like the timetable does now (with a dark mode setting stored, so when driving at night you don't get blinded by the white screen)
You can then flip the pages to the 'Fault finding and Reset Procedures' page, and there will be stuff like: 

Undervoltage trip reset procedure (most likely to happen during icy conditions)

Symptoms:
Power lost after Sparking from pantograph and HV meter fluctuating, due to iced up overhead wires.
No traction power available, sound of converter spinning down.

Warning lights:
Red 'Converter / Heating Overload' illuminated. (PRZEK.NADMIAR.PRZETW.IOGRZEW)
Green 'Main Switch' NOT illuminated. (WTŁĄCZ.SZYBKI)

Reset Procedure:
Turn off 'Train Heating' Switch (OGRZEWANIE POCIĄGU)

Press 'Reset Heating / Converter' button (ODBLOK.PRZEK.NADM.PRZETW.IOGRZEW.) ;
Red 'Converter / Heating Overload' light should go out.

Press and hold 'Close Main Switch' button (WYŁ.SZYBKI ZAŁĄCZ) ;
until the Green 'Main Switch' light illuminates.

Turn on 'Train Heating' Switch  (OGRZEWANIE POCIĄGU) 
Blue 'Train Heating' light illuminates.
---------------

Occasionally the undervoltage trip can also trip the following items:

Red 'Traction Motor Overload' light illuminated. (PRZEK.NADMIAR.SIL.TRAK.) ;
Press 'Reset Traction Motor Overload' button (ODBL.PRZEK.NADMIAR.SIL.TRAK.) light should go out.

Red 'Compressor Overload' light illuminated. (PRZEK.NADMIAR.SPREŻAREK) ;
Press 'Reset Compressor Overload' button (ODBL.PRZEK.NADM.SPRĘŻ.) light should go out.

If the Main Switch will not close, double check you have the Train Heating switch OFF. 

Edited February 6 by Gazz292
Got the bit about the train heating and converter wrong

[MBGT Benjamin]

I love this suggestion, I think it would be nice to have the following booklets (as actual clickable booklets that then open up like the timetable and not "just" a button in the UI):

1. Fault reset procedures, structured/formatted like your suggestion
2. General manual (maybe a copy of the wiki article), that includes a cold start guide, how to change cabins and an overview over what button/lever does what and what the different lights/indicators mean
3. ETCS information (for the vehicles that have it), basically the guide that is already ingame

And this could also be used in dispatching posts to have the dispatching guide we already have ingame in booklet form somewhere on the desk.

[Gazz292]

I wonder if it's possible to do similar to how the paper timetables work for this, as in they are fetched from an external site,

If they could pull the pages from say the official wiki, there'd be no need for the devs to have to add extra workload to implement this other than doing a similar thing that happens when you click on the paper timetable now (however, an animation of the driver reaching for the manuals would be really nice, and have them looking down and flipping through the pages.. but then we'd want animations of the drivers arms reaching for switches, getting frustrated when they can't fix the fault and throwing the manual out the window 🤬)

We could have a book with fault finding charts, and another book that's a sort of 'owners manual' like you get with a new car, showing what each switch, button, light and control is in that particular loco, and basic info on how to use them. 

Then more detailed guides on how to drive the trains, stuff like how to brake 'professionally and smoothly' what to do at the 'neutral' or 'lower panto' signs, headlight usage, plus the stuff you mention for the modern trains like ETCS manuals. 

Maybe have links to the wiki so people can go and read through the manuals at their leisure rather than trying to read them whilst driving the train in the multiplayer servers.

Then it should be simple enough to add this feature to the dispatcher posts, a few books on the bookshelves / desks that you can walk over to and click to read. 

[jeroezie]

3 hours ago, Gazz292 said:

I wonder if it's possible to do similar to how the paper timetables work for this, as in they are fetched from an external site,

If they could pull the pages from say the official wiki, there'd be no need for the devs to have to add extra workload to implement this other than doing a similar thing that happens when you click on the paper timetable now (however, an animation of the driver reaching for the manuals would be really nice, and have them looking down and flipping through the pages.. but then we'd want animations of the drivers arms reaching for switches, getting frustrated when they can't fix the fault and throwing the manual out the window 🤬)

We could have a book with fault finding charts, and another book that's a sort of 'owners manual' like you get with a new car, showing what each switch, button, light and control is in that particular loco, and basic info on how to use them. 

Then more detailed guides on how to drive the trains, stuff like how to brake 'professionally and smoothly' what to do at the 'neutral' or 'lower panto' signs, headlight usage, plus the stuff you mention for the modern trains like ETCS manuals. 

Maybe have links to the wiki so people can go and read through the manuals at their leisure rather than trying to read them whilst driving the train in the multiplayer servers.

Then it should be simple enough to add this feature to the dispatcher posts, a few books on the bookshelves / desks that you can walk over to and click to read. 

The current singleplayer 'paper' schedule is a number of png files stored in the scenario folders. I don't know how it works for multiplayer.

The current ET22 singleplayer heavy cargo scenario does already containe some instructions on how to performe cab changes.

Edited January 31 by jeroezie

[Gazz292]

Multiplayer works differently to single player... SP is basically scripted, the clock starts when you load into the train and everything around you starts at that time, so you can pause everything to show tutorials at the beginning or at set points along the drive, and when you press pause, the clock stops which is ok as you are only affecting 'AI' services around you. 

But in multiplayer, the server is always running, so you jump into a moving train wherever it is along the route when you join, you can't stop the whole server and change the time so one person can start a run or play a tutorial from the beginning.

So my idea is to have a fault finding chart and manuals that work like reading the timetables in multiplayer do.... the timetables in MP are fetched from the SimRail.express site, which creates the timetables on the fly based on each trains route/service data from the API that stores them all as .json files....
 An example for train 144295 in server INT1)

.

So when you click on the manuals to show them on screen, it's data is fetched from an external site so that it can be dynamically updated as is needed without the devs having to send out a whole sim update just to change one misspelled word on one of the pages, and a side effect of this is anyone can read that site outside of playing SimRail to learn more about driving the trains, fault finding, running the dispatcher posts etc (i.e. the SimRail Wiki )

But most importantly, they can pull up the fault finding chart when they are trying to figure out why the train won't move.
.

AFAIK there are no tutorials in SP that cover how to reset from an undervoltage trip in the EU07 / EP08 due to icy overhead wires, or how to reset the EN57 if you trip the overspeed relay... it's very common to see people asking on discord how to get everything working again after those situations,
half the time i only manage resetting the EN57 with random clicking of all switches on the desk and in the electrical cabinet. 

As a lot of players of SimRail do not know about this forum or the discord channels, some get frustrated and leave bad reviews on steam saying this sim is just too hard and aimed at real train drivers only,
And as most want to drive in multiplayer as that's what sets SimRAil apart from most other train sims, they run the shortest easiest SP tutorial in the elf just to get access to MP, then have no clue what to do when things go wrong in the more complex trains. 

Edited February 1 by Gazz292
spelling

[Gazz292]

@Pospec76502  is there a reason you hate the idea of fault finding charts and manuals in the trains?  i'm honestly wondering why it's such a bad idea. 
A lot of new people say SimRail is too hard, too hardcore, the learning curve is far too steep, there's no tutorials or help in multiplayer etc, and they give up on the sim as a result. 

So surely having the option to show a guide on how to drive the train and correct faults when they happen in multiplayer is better than people having to quit because they can't get the train going again after tripping an overload relay, of blocking the main line whilst they go on a forum to ask what to do. 

If someone already knows everything there is to know about all the trains in the sim, then simply don't click on the guides and you'll never know they are there, 

[Pospec76502]

@Gazz292 Are there such handbooks on real life locomotives in question? It is a simulator in the end and simulators have steep learning curve.

Your idea can be realized as throughout single-player tutorial showing all the corner cases, including winter-specific ones. Anyone can create such scenario.

[jeroezie]

20 minutes ago, Pospec76502 said:

@Gazz292 Are there such handbooks on real life locomotives in question? It is a simulator in the end and simulators have steep learning curve.

Your idea can be realized as throughout single-player tutorial showing all the corner cases, including winter-specific ones. Anyone can create such scenario.

Their are often handout available with start-up/shutdown/prepare for towing/earthing procedures and such for drives who are unfamiliar with the rolling stock. A 'manual' or instructions now what to do are also provided for dealing with malfunctions. In what form these are provided differs greatly from the knowledge level expected from the personnel. For the company I work for, a list of the necessary steps for starting/shutdown is provided in a simple .pdf in the website that runs the rulebook and such and they are also handed out during training in paper from (if you are smart, you keep these in your backpack). Handout for unusual combinations of locomotives is also provided. For the malfunctions on the older diesel loco, step by step flowcharts are found in paper inside the loco journal (this map also contains the daily check checklist, malfunction forms (so the next guy and the mechanics know about previous problems), large placecards in yellow and red for safety critical malfunctions (they are placed when needed on the steering table so even the morons who don't bother to read the malfunctions forms are aware of the problem), RID instructions and a copy of the daily check procedure and the step by step flowchart for dealing with the malfunctions.

For our modern electric locomotives, malfunction instructions are included within one of the DMI screens.

For the NS (big passenger carrier here), even more extensive documentation is present then on our diesels, and it contains almost everything you could need to know. They also have detailed instructional videos. Not that the drivers are allowed to solve any problems without calling the hotline who is supposed to explain what to do (the NS management insists to make everything idiot proof, and if you know what to do or are capable to follow simple instructions/flowcharts, as any driver should be able to in my opinion, to bad for you, stop using your brain immediately and call the hotline).

Conclusion: providing instructions on the loco is completely normal here at the company's where the driver is supposed to know about the stuff he is doing. At the company where they prefer to keep their drivers stupid, they have a hotline which you must call instead of having a basic knowledge and using your brain; yet they still have all the instructions onboard and instructional video's.

[Gazz292]

Of course there are fault finding charts and handbooks in locomotives in most countries, they sell on ebay every now and then and sometimes you find them online when someones scanned them.
The fault finding charts are usually kept with the locomotives logbook, which you enter your details when taking the loco over, you also enter any faults you experienced... and you can read about faults past drivers experienced to be aware of things that may happen during your trip... this part i am not suggesting for SimRail as it would not make any sense.

Some Youtube videos show drivers getting loco's ready for their shift and having something not start up properly, or driving along and having a fault affect their loco, 
They open the locker that has all the loco's paperwork in it, and pull out the fault finding charts, then work through the one that applies the the issue they are having,
this ensures they reset things in the correct order and get the train moving again. 

.

A lot of people do not want to play single player stuff... and most play the shortest tutorial to gain access to the multiplayer side of the sim and never go back.

I've played the tutorials of the trains i am interested in once, but that only covers the basics, everything else i learnt as i went along over the past 2 years. 
but i do read this forum and discord... something a lot of people into train sims do not do, hence why so many steam reviews saying this sim is too hard and they have refunded it.
Whilst i know most of the reset procedures for the EU07/EP08 type loco's, i sometimes fail to fully reset the EN57 if i trigger a trip as i don't drive that train very often.
it doesn't help that i can not speak or read Polish, so i'm trying to remember if the red light is telling me the converter or compressor has not reset, then try to figure out what i did wrong during the reset sequence *usually turns out to be i left the train heating switch on*

.
AFAIK there are no tutorials showing how to reset faults in single player other than the most basic overcurrent trip in the EU07 type loco's, so to people who do not drive trains IRL, or are not able to memorize everything about every train in the sim, a fault finding chart and a manual showing in the players language what each light and switch is would be very helpful. 

Just seeing how many posts on discord ask 'my train wont move, what am i doing wrong... hurry up and help me as i've got an angry pendolino driver behind me' says to me at least that others may find a fault finding chart in multiplayer helpfull too. 

 

[GoppelPL]

Just contributing to the discussion, as I'm not the one to decide whether such thing would be implemented or not - there's no such thing in Polish locomotives, and the drivers are often called "mechanics", as they are responsible for quick repairs of their locos and other rolling stock, and there's only them, their own knowledge (and maybe a phone call to a friend) to do that. I'm actually surprised to see a quick reference manual (in Czech, German and Hungarian) regarding ETCS trouble on a sidewall in the locomotive I'm driving right now (obviously I'm on halt in a station that is). 

Regarding the idea itself, I think it's a good idea, but I'd rather use a pdf file if I was to learn a new loco, rather than constantly open and close the manual in game. 

[Pospec76502]

17 hours ago, Gazz292 said:

Of course there are fault finding charts and handbooks in locomotives in most countries

We're not talking about "locomotives in most countries". We're talking about 35-60 years old locomotives in Poland.

Totally unrealistic to have handbook on board of such old engine. I want this (and every) simulator to be hardcore.

I'm not sure about UK but engineers in my country don't need any handbooks as they are properly trained. If they're stuck and can't fix the issue by themselves, they call to a depot for an expert advice.

Oh, wait, I have an idea! What if we just put your phone number in the locomotives? That would be another level of realism! 😃

Edited February 10 by Pospec76502

[Gazz292]

if anything you would have more reason to have a fault finding chart in a 60 year old locomotive, 
IRL all the modern ones have self diagnostics and on screen support (some even lockout when the hidden gps board detects they are in a depot for more than 8 days!) 

I too want a hardcore train simulator, but how long are the multiplayer servers going to remain up for when no one new is buying SimRail to pay for them because it's far too steep of a learning curve for most to get into, that is anyone who is not prepared to undertake the equivalent of training to drive a real train to use this sim. 
I can imagine the money from the few hundred of us who have stuck with SimRail for 2+ years has long been used up.

Not everyone has a lot of time to dedicate to pretending to drive trains, and not everyone can remember the reset procedures for every fault on every train we have in the sim for the few failures we have simulated right now, imagine what it will be like when more random failures are introduced.
And sometimes it's even harder to figure out what's tripped and how to remedy it if you can not read Polish, as even the warning light labels are not much help to you. 

Fault finding charts and manuals would be just like the HUD that has been in SimRail from the beginning, people who want to use ot do so, those who don't turn it of and pretend it doesn't exist.
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I don't know about today, but UK drivers all used to carry a bag with them that contained paperwork for the trains they drive including fault finding information, some of it based on things other drivers have experienced and how they got the train going again. 
Some would even carry some spare parts to fix the common issues they may experience. 


 

[GoppelPL]

16 minut temu, Gazz292 napisał(a):

drivers all used to carry a bag with them that contained paperwork for the trains they drive

Naaah, all I carry is some snacks 😉 

 

16 minut temu, Gazz292 napisał(a):

Some would even carry some spare parts to fix the common issues

And for that I have a roll of duct tape, a pack of zipties and a swiss army knife 😄

[jeroezie]

https://www.facebook.com/reel/1153824266103937

I am glad, I am not a Polish driver, so I am not supposed to know out of my head, what to do for every different problem that will show up. Especially when stuff does not happens at all and then when you have forgotten it finally happens.