(Proposal) Sosnowiec Południowy - Preventing from blocking

[TheFloxiCz]

Hi,

I would like to suggest some changes regarding Sosnowiec Południowy. Unfortunately, players are causing problems and AI dispatchers do the same, so the chaos is more higher...

Human is a person, who do mistakes whole life. Some mistakes are by our own fault, some are not. As probably everyone there know, Sosnowiec Południowy is the worst place on the map. There is only one track (rail) between Sosnowiec Południowy and Sosnowiec Dandówka. There are too much trains and one track isn't helpful. Delayed trains causing problems even for AI Dispatchers and I can clearly say, that behavior of the AI dispatchers is still something, which could be better in the future. 

Players will do mistakes forever, but AI dispatchers should be the latest person, who will try to fix it, instead of that AI DIspatchers are continuing and do more mistakes then players. This is really stressful. AI Dispatcher should be better than a player, instead of that, they do the same mistakes.

There are a few problems, which is in this "magic triangle" which needs to be improved:

1) Timetables should be edited

- ... because you have to serve 3 trains in 8 minutes, which is very hard. I can clearly say, that SP will not accept your 2nd train, if there is train near Sosnowiec Dandówka in direction Katowice. This means you have to wait at least 5-8 minutes. During this time, you have to held completely all trains to direction Bedzin.

2) Sosnowiec Południowy should be created available to dispatch for players with the highest priority

- ... because player can fix the mistakes. AI DIspatcher instead of this, will block the route for next few hours. After 1-2 hours is route to Sedziszow completely blocked until restart. Player can take more trains to the station, so other trains can depart. There is more tracks, you can always send trains to other tracks (without platforms) or use SZ.

3) AI Dispatchers should have some priorities

- ... because AI dispatchers send trains from Dandówka to Południowy when the route is blocked by other trains in the opposite direction. This is really same stupidity, as a player doing in Główny. There should be some condition, that Dandówka will not send trains to Południowy, if both tracks are blocked. Dandówka should take trains from Południowy first, so the route will not be blocked.

----------

At overall, there are more problems, but I'm afraid, that this is not problem of the players only. If AI dispatcher can send trains to ocupied station, it's something which should be fixed asap. This is also showing us new problem. If AI dispatchers can cause that problems on one track (rail) there, it could be caused on any other one tracks in custom or future maps. It's something, which should be fixed until final release, because there should be always some kind of prevention.

This thread was written with overall frustration, because players do mistakes, but bots do mistakes too. Artificial intelligence should be something, which can handle this mistakes. At the moment, it does same mistakes as players and this is what I think that should be fixed in the future. AI Dispatchers are good and they are working really good, but there is always some small place for improvements, at least this is thought. 

We can also start talking about station Tunel, which is blocked every day, at least 2 servers before restart are completely blocked, everytime. But this is another topic, let's continue back to Południowy.

 

Thank you for reading whole post and I hope, there will be better "tomorrows".

Best regards.

Edited January 22, 2023 by TheFloxiCz

[PapisCZE_SimRail.cz]

+1

[Cyclone]

On 1/22/2023 at 2:19 PM, TheFloxiCz said:

Hi,

I would like to suggest some changes regarding Sosnowiec Południowy. Unfortunately, players are causing problems and AI dispatchers do the same, so the chaos is more higher...

Human is a person, who do mistakes whole life. Some mistakes are by our own fault, some are not. As probably everyone there know, Sosnowiec Południowy is the worst place on the map. There is only one track (rail) between Sosnowiec Południowy and Sosnowiec Dandówka. There are too much trains and one track isn't helpful. Delayed trains causing problems even for AI Dispatchers and I can clearly say, that behavior of the AI dispatchers is still something, which could be better in the future. 

Players will do mistakes forever, but AI dispatchers should be the latest person, who will try to fix it, instead of that AI DIspatchers are continuing and do more mistakes then players. This is really stressful. AI Dispatcher should be better than a player, instead of that, they do the same mistakes.

There are a few problems, which is in this "magic triangle" which needs to be improved:

1) Timetables should be edited

- ... because you have to serve 3 trains in 8 minutes, which is very hard. I can clearly say, that SP will not accept your 2nd train, if there is train near Sosnowiec Dandówka in direction Katowice. This means you have to wait at least 5-8 minutes. During this time, you have to held completely all trains to direction Bedzin.

2) Sosnowiec Południowy should be created available to dispatch for players with the highest priority

- ... because player can fix the mistakes. AI DIspatcher instead of this, will block the route for next few hours. After 1-2 hours is route to Sedziszow completely blocked until restart. Player can take more trains to the station, so other trains can depart. There is more tracks, you can always send trains to other tracks (without platforms) or use SZ.

3) AI Dispatchers should have some priorities

- ... because AI dispatchers send trains from Dandówka to Południowy when the route is blocked by other trains in the opposite direction. This is really same stupidity, as a player doing in Główny. There should be some condition, that Dandówka will not send trains to Południowy, if both tracks are blocked. Dandówka should take trains from Południowy first, so the route will not be blocked.

----------

At overall, there are more problems, but I'm afraid, that this is not problem of the players only. If AI dispatcher can send trains to ocupied station, it's something which should be fixed asap. This is also showing us new problem. If AI dispatchers can cause that problems on one track (rail) there, it could be caused on any other one tracks in custom or future maps. It's something, which should be fixed until final release, because there should be always some kind of prevention.

This thread was written with overall frustration, because players do mistakes, but bots do mistakes too. Artificial intelligence should be something, which can handle this mistakes. At the moment, it does same mistakes as players and this is what I think that should be fixed in the future. AI Dispatchers are good and they are working really good, but there is always some small place for improvements, at least this is thought. 

We can also start talking about station Tunel, which is blocked every day, at least 2 servers before restart are completely blocked, everytime. But this is another topic, let's continue back to Południowy.

Thank you for reading whole post and I hope, there will be better "tomorrows".

Best regards.

The single line is operated exactly the same as an alternate line is operated by AIs in the north.  I walked into Pilichowice to find two tracks entering from another station.  The AI at the prior station had asked, and the other AI accepted, an absolutely unnecessary direction change.  Since the SP platforms are NOT within the single line, the AI does not have the capacity to understand that the single line is not able to be freely swapped like this.  If a human SP dispatcher knows there is a train in 1, the player can say hey, I'm not accepting your next train and I'm in fact keeping the junction against you until this train clears.  The AI, based on experience in Line 4, will just freely accept it and send the second train in.  My concern is that the line may not be operating in the way 660 does.  Is it permanently set like Track 1 and 2 in the north?  Or does the arrow flash and go off after each train clears, and one cannot send the next train until that clearance is achieved?  If the latter, it should be possible for even an AI to say hey, there's a train at Platform 1, I'm leaving you in the single line until I can clear this train, and once it's clear, you come in and therefore Dandowka cannot send me the next train until I'm good and ready.

There is then the logic question of the "more important service".  It will be more inclined to accept any train numbered 241xx or 246xx over sending a train to Dandowka because the lower number increases priority.  With every train a 42xxx from Katowice to Line 62, it literally means every single train from Dandowka is more important.  This is a complication.  Because then you have a train waiting in 2 for "more important traffic", another train blocking Track 2 on Line 1, and very unhappy passengers.

Edited January 26, 2023 by Cyclone

[Patator]

And the 20 km/h limit doesn't help traffic...

[ArtU4]

2 godziny temu, Cyclone napisał(a):

 

There is then the logic question of the "more important service".  It will be more inclined to accept any train numbered 241xx or 246xx over sending a train to Dandowka because the lower number increases priority.  With every train a 42xxx from Katowice to Line 62, it literally means every single train from Dandowka is more important.  This is a complication.  Because then you have a train waiting in 2 for "more important traffic", another train blocking Track 2 on Line 1, and very unhappy passengers.

Erm, no. It's true that lower number means higher priority ( more or less) but the number structure is different than you think. 

First digit means train origin, second - destination. And next digits are valid for some sort of priority or train type.

So, 42100 means fast train firm Katowice to Kielce and 42900 is a regional train between Katowice and Kielce. In an opposite direction we have 24101 and 24901. But this do not mean that 24901 is more important train than 42100. The second is xx100 train and the first xx900, so the first one would have lower priority.

Same with cargo 42xxxx 6 digits with four digits after orgin/destination number would be lower priority comparing any passenger train with three digits.

And Express train would be numbered ie. 4201.

 

So in general - shorter the train number - more important train

Edited January 26, 2023 by ArtU4

[Cyclone]

2 hours ago, ArtU4 said:

Erm, no. It's true that lower number means higher priority ( more or less) but the number structure is different than you think. 

First digit means train origin, second - destination. And next digits are valid for some sort of priority or train type.

So, 42100 means fast train firm Katowice to Kielce and 42900 is a regional train between Katowice and Kielce. In an opposite direction we have 24101 and 24901. But this do not mean that 24901 is more important train than 42100. The second is xx100 train and the first xx900, so the first one would have lower priority.

Same with cargo 42xxxx 6 digits with four digits after orgin/destination number would be lower priority comparing any passenger train with three digits.

And Express train would be numbered ie. 4201.

So in general - shorter the train number - more important train

I have learned something today. 😄

I always thought the entire number was the determining factor.  So this was new information, and I appreciate the better understanding.  Though where a single track can become permanently blocked, I think priority should basically be thrown out the window in favour of "keep services moving". 🤣

[TheFloxiCz]

@Cyclone Basically, it seems that AI dispatchers doesn't have any priority rules except Pendolino, which AI bots priorizing over all trains. They can send cargo train before passenger train, which will block the line with his speed limit (VMax 80 km/h).

If you ask for a permission to send train to Sosnowiec Południowy, AI dispatcher always decline your request every time once he has train in the station. If I overdo it if the AI dispatcher will have 10 trains in his station, he will decline your request until his station will be clear. 

 

Note for a train numbering: Train numbers are similar, but first two numbers are "reversed" in the opposite direction.  For examle: EC to Warszawa is 411xx, backward trains are 141xx. TLK in one direction are 421xx, backwards direction is 241xx. Pendolinos are 13xx/14xx and in the opposite direction 31xx/41xx. The only exception are lines S1/S41, which always starts with 401xx (s1) or 406xx (S41).