Dispatcher: Can't set train route through locked points

[DiscoBreak]

I tried to set a "train route" through points set to "minus" and locked (stop) within the same signal block. This did not work. The routing should be correct (although not used for normal operations)?

See pictures.

 

Edited December 11, 2022 by DiscoBreak

[uetam]

This route is blocked in interlocking system. This is intentional.
You CAN do something like that for example in the Psary station:

[DiscoBreak]

Okey 🙂

How would you handle such scenario? Example with a point failure? Or maybe failures will not be simulated?

[DiscoBreak]

Okey, so it depends on the station and its specific interlocking? 

[uetam]

4 minuty temu, DiscoBreak napisał(a):

Okey 🙂

How would you handle such scenario? Example with a point failure? Or maybe failures will not be simulated?

You can use substitute signal. Click on signal, select red SZ command and send it, then wait 5 seconds and select signal again but this time select SZP command and send it.

[DiscoBreak]

3 minutes ago, uetam said:

You can use substitute signal. Click on signal, select red SZ command and send it, then wait 5 seconds and select signal again but this time select SZP command and send it.

Will try, thanks!

[uetam]

3 minuty temu, DiscoBreak napisał(a):

Will try, thanks!

You need to be careful because in substitute signal mode interlocking system does not check switches positions and track occupancy 🙂

[DiscoBreak]

2 hours ago, uetam said:

You need to be careful because in substitute signal mode interlocking system does not check switches positions and track occupancy 🙂

So if I understand you correctly, with a signal in substitute mode I don't set a "train route"? The signal can be passed by a train without a route; no matter how the section ahead of the signal is set?

I think I understand the concept of a Sz signal, I just wonder how this works within the simulator. 

[DiscoBreak]

50 minutes ago, DiscoBreak said:

So if I understand you correctly, with a signal in substitute mode I don't set a "train route"? The signal can be passed by a train without a route; no matter how the section ahead of the signal is set?

I think I understand the concept of a Sz signal, I just wonder how this works within the simulator. 

Gave it a try and yes, it did work 🙂

[firleju]

17 hours ago, DiscoBreak said:

Okey, so it depends on the station and its specific interlocking? 

Yes. So in Dąbrowa Górnicza there is no route with this switch positions. You can check this by selecting to nearest semaphor and if there is no select point on switches there is no alternative routes to the basic one.

[DiscoBreak]

7 hours ago, firleju said:

Yes. So in Dąbrowa Górnicza there is no route with this switch positions. You can check this by selecting to nearest semaphor and if there is no select point on switches there is no alternative routes to the basic one.

Understood!

When I opened this topic I thought the "train route" would take "valid" locked points within the block into consideration. However, I now understand this is done with the "Sz" signal.

I have been testing "Sz" in a few different scenarios and have not encountered any problems so far! 

[TrainEngineer]

Note that unlike in Germany with "loop routes" (alternative paths between two signals) (in German "Umfahrstrasse") this is not common in other systems. Like in North America, loop routes are simply not implemented due to cost. (supplying signal control lines is expensive).
The geographic signal interlocking system in Germany "gives it away", but is rarely used. It's not a real addition to redundancy and cost a LOT of money to implement.

[DiscoBreak]

19 minutes ago, TrainEngineer said:

Note that unlike in Germany with "loop routes" (alternative paths between two signals) (in German "Umfahrstrasse") this is not common in other systems. Like in North America, loop routes are simply not implemented due to cost. (supplying signal control lines is expensive).
The geographic signal interlocking system in Germany "gives it away", but is rarely used. It's not a real addition to redundancy and cost a LOT of money to implement.

Interesting, thanks for the info!

I only have minor experience with the Swedish signal system, where I believe this feature also is implemented. This being the reason for my misconception of the feature being more or less standard for other similar systems. 🙂 

Edited December 12, 2022 by DiscoBreak

[Lynn tworm]

I am a train dispatcher in the Netherlands and we can use every possible route from point A to B. This due to driving as much as possible when there are defects or problems anywhere else

[TrainEngineer]

On 12/12/2022 at 11:40 AM, HSL said:

I am a train dispatcher in the Netherlands and we can use every possible route from point A to B. This due to driving as much as possible when there are defects or problems anywhere else

yes, in the Netherlands they do those loop routes. and indeed for redundancy reasons. They really avoid them in USA and Canada. Just to save money.
and hey, you're in my old home station! Say "Hi!" on the tower from me! I know that station in all details, all steps... 😉

[Jasonic]

In UK we call them alternative routes and you can lock various points to force the other route like in Simrail, of course that only works if the route is available in the interlocking as not all moves are , especially if they are not seen as useful or needed.